Automatic Transcript Generated:
Speaker 1
So John is asking why there was no mention why was there no mention of heaven in the Old Testament?
Speaker 2
Well, John, I think it’s because you you have not seen them. They are there and it’s just maybe you are passing over them. There are so many verses of it. And sometimes it’s understandable because the Bible might talk about the holy mountain or Zion and it could be maybe a little bit unclear whether the Bible is talking about Jerusalem or it’s talking about the holy city in heaven. So sometimes you might have to figure out which one it is or sometimes maybe it’s both of them in a sense at the same time. But there are also times where the Bible outright is telling us about heaven, scenes in heaven. And these are in the Old Testament and these are actually some of my favorite ones. So we have, I think, a bit more time today, so we actually can go a bit more in detail and some of them too, so it’s a bit more fun. Now, the oldest book of the Bible, some people believe in them, with them is the Book of Job. And the book of Job actually has it starts off with scenes in heaven. You look at Job, chapter one, starting at verse six, it reads, now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came among them.
Speaker 2
And the Lord said to Satan, from where did you come? So Satan answered the Lord and said, from going to and fro on the earth and from walking back and forth on it. And then from here, God mentions Job. But in this context we see god asks, where did it come from, Satan? And he says, I came from earth. By this we could gather they’re not on earth. This is actually in the heavenly courtroom. And when it talks about the sons of God, this is actually a reference often to the angels and other creative beings who are coming together, assembling what they do from time to time. And the Bible talks about how we will do that, even with the new earth. We’ll be having these regular monthly assemblies, for example. So this is the first time we see it. You can see this again in Job too. We don’t need to go there. But if we jump now to First Kings, chapter 22, starting at verse 19, little background on this story. King Ahab. Yeah. King ahab, I think and then Jarboham. Not Jarboham. Jehostaphat. Two kings. Ahab was the king of Israel. Jehoshaphat was the king of Judah because they had split and they were talking about going and attacking someone they have wanted to go attack.
Speaker 2
And Jerem said, well, the host of that said, let’s have a meeting, let us consult with some prophets to make sure God is okay with this. And all the prophets say, oh, yes, this is fine. There’s like 200 of them totally cool with it, but then didn’t quite feel good about it. He’s like, let’s consult with someone else. There’s really like a prophet of God here who could tell us. And there was one, and this is what he said, he has a vision. This is from mekaiah, the prophet, starting in one Kings 22, verse 19. He says, therefore hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord coming down on his throne and all the hosts of heaven standing by on his right hand and on his left. And the Lord said, who will persuade a habit to go up that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead? So one spoke in this manner and another spoke in that manner, referred to like the angels. And then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord and said, I will persuade him. The Lord said to him, in what way? So he said, I will go ahead and be the lion spirit in the mouth of the prophet.
Speaker 2
And the Lord said, you shall persuade him and also prevail. Go out and do so. Here we see the heavenly courtroom in the sense there’s another assembly, just like in Job, and a lion spirit. I believe this is Satan again coming to that courtroom. He had access to God through the courtroom, which he gained. It’s a little bit confusing. Satan was kicked out of heaven. You read that in Revelation Twelve, but then you’re like, wait, he’s kicked out? How is he back in? Well, we’ve talked about it in other videos, but in a sense when Adam and Eve sinned, they gave control. They gave their authority on the earth to Satan. Satan became their ruler. Satan becomes now the representative of earth and he’s going to these meetings on behalf of earth. So when he says, Joe, I’m going to throw the earth, he can because it’s all his domain. So we have similar scenes. Zechariah three, verses one to seven. There we see Joshua, the high priest, standing before the angel of the Lord. And Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him. This is a vision. Joshua wasn’t taken to heaven. But we still have a courtroom scene.
Speaker 2
Again, Satan’s there and Satan is trying to argue against one of God’s people. And there the Lord said to Satan the Lord rebuke you, Satan. The Lord has chosen Jerusalem. Who has chosen Jerusalem? Rebuke you, say. This is a heavenly scene. Daniel seven, nine to ten. So again, this one very interesting scene. Daniel versus nine. Sorry, Daniel, seven versus nine to ten. And it says, I watched till thrones were put in place and the ancient of Days was seated. His garment was white as snow and the hair of his head was like your wool. His throne was a fiery flame and its wheels are burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him. 1000 thousand minister to him 10,000 times 10,000 stood before him. Again, we have to remember, 10,000 is about the largest number that these people in ancient times could comprehend. They didn’t have million, billion, trillion, they had 10,000. That’s their big number. And so when they say like 10,000 times ten thousands for us, like infinity times infinity, not saying it’s infinity, right, but gigantic number. This is the heavenly courtroom. It says in the court receded and the books were open.
Speaker 2
So here Daniel sing Heaven and he’s seen at the beginning of judgment with the thrones in place and books being open. Then there are so many verses in the Psalms talking about heaven, referring to it. For example, this is a famous one, psalm 82, verses one to eight says, God stands in the congregation of the mighty. He judges amongst the gods. So similar scene we keep seeing again, right? God, he’s surrounded by a lot of people and he refers him to the gods. That word there, I believe, is elohim. The word Elohim can be used for the God and could be also used for angels often. So we’re trying to be, oh, no, what’s going on? Are we polytheist again? There’s God, the mighty God, the one and only true God, and then the angels are powerful beings too. So it’s not denying that anybody who is a child of God, as we’ll see, in a sense is a God, but not the God. We could go on for this. I don’t mean to cause too much confusion. So he judges amongst the gods. How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked?
Speaker 2
And then reads on verse six, it says, I said you are Gods and you are children of the Most High, and you shall die like men and you fall like one of the princes. Arise of God, judge the earth, you shall inherit all nations. I believe he’s talking about falling angels, especially how they are going to be judged and they are going to be destroyed, just like the wicked humans will be too. Now, in Exodus, we actually get some scenes of heaven as well. And first we have a mentioning here of God dwelling in a sanctuary. Exodus 15, verses 1718. It says, you will bring them in and plant them in the mountain of your inheritance. The place, O God, which you have made for your own dwelling. The sanctuary, O Lord, which your hands have established. The Lord shall reign forever and ever. So God has a sanctuary, he’s made it, it’s his holy mountain. And you could argue, but he’s talking about the promised land here. But it says there is another promised land, another holding mountain, another sanctuary which exists. And then if we go forward to exist 25 versus eight to nine, it says, and let them make me a sanctuary.
Speaker 2
God’s talking to Moses that I may dwell among them according to all that I show you. That is the pattern of the tabernacle and the pattern of all its furnishings just so you shall make it. So God showed Moses basically an image of the sanctuary that’s in heaven, and he says, Now I want you to make a smaller version of that here on earth. And again, there’s a lot of other verses alluding to God having a temple in heaven. Psalms eleven four says, the Lord is in his holy temple. They say, well, maybe that’s one on earth. No, next line. The Lord’s throne is in heaven. His eyes behold, his eyelids test the sons of men, says, for he has looked down from the height of his sanctuary from heaven, the Lord viewed the earth. Again, we’re talking about earth, sorry, heaven. God is using the term above, Isaiah 66, one to two, it says thus, says the Lord, heaven is my throne, earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? And where’s the place of my rest for all those things my hand has made? And all those things exist, says the Lord.
Speaker 2
But this one will I look on Him who is poor and another contrived spirit, and who trembles at my word. God’s like, hey, I’m way up here, I’m way in heaven. What’s the earth to me? Yet I like humble people. Isaiah had a vision. He was at the temple, at the real physical temple on earth. And then he has a vision where he sees God. Isaiah six, verses one to seven says, in your king Uzah died. I saw the Lord sitting on a throne high and lifted up, and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above it stood seraphim. Each one had six wings. With two he covered his face, two covered his feet, and two he flew. And one cried to the other, holy, holy, holy is the Lord of host. The whole earth is full of his glory. And if this doesn’t sound familiar, go look in Book of Revelation and you see this language again with the seraphim or the beast saying holy, holy, holy, and just continually saying that all the time singing it. So imagine that that helps us get an idea of what heaven is like, right? Singing and praising of God.
Speaker 2
Holy, holy, holy. Is he? And most of the door was shaken by the voice of Him. He cried just this whole scene. Isaiah say in verse five, he’s like, well, to me I’m done because I am a man of unclean lips. He’s so blown away by the glory. And just in contrast to how he is, if you keep reading, you’ll see a sign of an altar. I believe that is the altar of incense. And since there on earth ezekiel, chapter one. Also later in verse 26, we see another vision. Similar people see seraphiline, see sapphire stone, there’s blue stones, and then you see a throne of God again. And this is similar to what we see in Exodus 24. Says Moses went up with Aaron, Nateb and Baihu. Exodus 24 versus nine to ten and 70 of the elders and they saw God of Israel and there was under his feet, as it were, pave work of sapphire stones and it was like the very heavens and its clarity. So we gather from these two verses at heaven there’s going to be these blue sapphire stones that’s going to be a part of the decor, the foundations, these elements of it.
Speaker 2
Isaiah 14 versus twelve to 14. Here we have a discussion of Lucifer Satan, I believe, one in the same and it’s talking about how Satan was there in heaven and talking about how he wants to be in heaven. He wants to exalt his throne above the stars of God. He wants to sit on the holy mountain of the congregation on the farthest north side. He’ll send the height to the cloud and wants to be like the most high. He’s fallen from heaven. Exodus 20 812 and 16 again, more about Satan and about how he’s in Eden. Verse 13 says, you were in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone was your covering the stardust, popez and diamond barrel onyx jasper sapphire, all these beautiful gemstones and gold. It says you were the workmanship of timberls and pipes, you were the anointed chair of you were perfect in all ways. It goes on. You defiled all your like this. You walk back and forth in the midst of the fiery stones. This is similar to what we see in Daniel, right where I was talking about the fire coming out of the throne. So this sort of similar imagery.
Speaker 2
So heaven is there. There’s so many references to it. Just pay attention. And if you look at them all at once, you start stitching together the full picture of what does heaven look like and it is amazing place. And as that verse says, no eyes, no ears heard. No one could basically comprehend what God has in store for us. But if you keep reading the verse but God has revealed these things through his prophets. God has given us a bit of insight into some amazing things we can expect and it’s out of this world. And we think gold is fun. We see a little bit gold, we see a little bit of jewels, they’re going to be all over the place. We’re not even going to think about money because what is it to us? It’s just there for us to enjoy, be wowed by and can’t wait to be there. And I hope you can’t wait to be there too. Tina, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think that’s really good because there are so many mentions of heaven that might not be super direct, but it’s definitely real and we definitely know that God’s people knew about heaven. It’s very clear. When I think of heaven in the Old Testament, my favorite story, and I don’t know if you mentioned this because I got a little distracted, the technical issue. But when Jacob had that dream of his ladder and it literally says in Genesis chapter 28, and he dreamed, behold a ladder set up on earth and the ladder reaches the top to heaven and behold angels of God descending and ascending and descending on it. So we do see heaven in the Old Testament for sure. But we see it like you’re saying throughout, if you really get to know the Bible and see when it’s talking about the throne of God, his sanctuary in heaven, there’s so many mentions of it, it can’t be more clear. And we definitely know that God keep on the Old Testament knew about heaven because they were all striving for it. And you see that the biggest picture of it I think is like the land of Canaan when Moses delivered the people.
Speaker 3
It’s a symbol for heaven, the promised land. But when I think about the Old Testament characters, like in Hebrews chapter eleven, it talks about just why for a
Speaker 2
Moment sorry, just darius? Yes, we see your comments, we are live and we’ll get to your questions. So I don’t want you to leave before we get to there. Sorry. Back to you, Tina.
Speaker 3
Sure, no worries. Just going to back just really quick. And we know that the Old Testament characters definitely knew that there was a heaven because it says like when you look at Hebrews eleven. The hall of Faith. Where it talks about all these greats of the Old Testament. Whether it’s Abel and Enoch and Noah and Abraham. And it says something really cool in humberteam basically how they were talking about how their pilgrims for these things. They declared plainly that they seek a country in verse 16. But now they desire a better country that is a heavenly from once they came out that they might have if they had opportunity to return. So basically they were seeking heaven, we know that for sure. And Elijah was caught up to heaven, enoch was caught up to heaven. So there’s so many different things about heaven in the Old Testament. Definitely it was real for them and it’s real for us. And we’re all seeking the same place and I hope we all get there.
Speaker 2
Amen. So Darius has some questions and I think we got some quick answers we can point you to. Actually some days we’ve answered before we got videos on them. So Darius says if he was a sinner like 17 years ago, 17,000 years ago, why do I go to hell? Well, I think we have a couple of answers to that. First off, hell isn’t necessarily a place. It’s more going to be event where those who have not repented of their sins and claim to sin in cents, they want to stay with the sin, they’re going to be destroyed with sin, god’s going to destroy just like we destroy disease. We’re so careful about wearing masks and things like that because we want to prevent the spread of things. Well, God treats sin the same way. So if we want to stay infected with sin and we don’t want God to cure us, then when God goes to destroy the disease of sin, he’s going to have to destroy us with it.
Speaker 1
It’s not that he wants to destroy, we’re choosing to walk into destruction at that point. God has the fire to destroy sins and those who follow that path are going to walk into that fire of their own choice. If that’s not God’s plan.
Speaker 2
Yeah, what’s the verse where Jesus says, why would you die of israel says please choose life. That’s what he wants.
Speaker 3
Yeah, that’s in the book of Ezekiel. I believe it’s in chapter 33. But yeah, definitely it’s never God’s will for us to die in second Peter, chapter three. I believe it’s first time where it says god has long suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. And it just goes back to John 316 really like I have to bring them first up. But it’s so true that for God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten side that whosoever would believe in Him should not perish. So if you want to believe in God, he offers salvation to you, will not perish, but have everlasting life. And basically if you keep reading in that chapter it says if you don’t want it, then you’re going to perish. It’s your choice. And it’s sad that there are things people make, choices that affect other people because we live in a sinful world and we’re not always given the best opportunity to know who God really is, his character of love. But we need to look for Him. We need to look for his truth. And I do believe that God calls to every single person in their lifetime in some way.
Speaker 3
So we just need to keep our ears open and our hearts open to his voice.
Speaker 2
And we did a deep dive on it last week where we talked about how if you were an evil person in the past or you had done the bad things in the past, god doesn’t care so much. God cares about who you are today. If you are a totally different person, you repent and you turn from those things. That’s what God cares about. And you could be born again, be a new person in Christ, be a new creation, and you get to start over like with a blank slate. That’s what’s so awesome about what the Bible teaches about how God really is. It’s completely different than what you hear today in council culture where you sin, you mess up, you’re stuck with that the rest of your life. People want you to believe that you are not your past. You don’t have to be that person. You can in a sense, have that person die. The Bible says that old you should die and you again be born again, be a new person. And this is what Jesus is talking about in John three when he’s speaking with Nicodemus and about being born again.
Speaker 1
I’m trying to understand what you’re saying here, Darryl, and maybe you can clarify.
Speaker 2
But don’t you feel guilty job in.
Speaker 3
The pillars of Salt, he got canceled for 2000 years.
Speaker 2
You mean Lots wife? Yeah, I’m not sure where it goes with that. She was told, don’t look back, she didn’t listen. Her heart was with Sodom and Gomorrah. So they’re supposed to be running, let that trap of their life burn. But her heart was still with them and then so she perished with them. What that was about.
Speaker 1
Okay, so the other questions people know Jesus, what about them? What happens to people who didn’t know Jesus?
Speaker 2
The Bible talked about how people are judged according to the best light given to them. Paul Rice I think is it in the book of Romans, Tina?
Speaker 3
I’m not sure. When I think about those who maybe I’ve never heard the name of Jesus or the name of God. God’s not necessarily going to judge them like, oh well, you never heard about Jesus, so you can’t go to heaven. I don’t think that’s true. I don’t know exactly where that’s found where people are to live up to the best light that they know of. That escapes me. But what I think about, I think it’s pretty clear in the Old Testament there’s a book or a verse in Zechariah, chapters 13, verse six, and it says basically it’s talking about heaven. And it says in one shall say to him, which would be Jesus, what are these wounds in your hands? I mean, obviously that’s Jesus crucified for us. He died for us that way. And he shall answer those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. So there’s going to be people who are going to go to heaven and say, hey Jesus, what are these wounds in your hands about? I don’t know this story. They don’t know Jesus. They don’t know that he died for their salvation, but they’re going to be in heaven to be able to ask him that
Speaker 3
And I do believe, like you’re saying, Jace, they lived up to the light that they knew. They lived up to the conscience of their heart. And so I think God is much bigger than our limited understanding of things. And I think God judges righteously. I think there will be people in heaven that maybe never knew the name of Jesus, but they lived up like you’re kind of saying they knew to be a good person, to be fair, to be the best person. They could be.
Speaker 1
Important. Thank you. Yeah, I completely agree with you. And I think it’s also important to realize that there are people that know God that may not have ever met someone who calls themselves a Christian. It’s amazing the biblical stories that have been carried in. I mean, we have heard stories from people who have worked in the mission field in extreme remote tribes and these tribal groups have stories of the flood within them and Noah’s Ark within them. And they’ve never talked to somebody who knew the Bible stories that we think of today. Typically no one has come and preached to them the word of God before, but they have these stories. There is possibility for people to know God without having met someone who calls themselves a Christian. They may not have the full understanding yet of God and of Jesus and of everything that there is to know, but frankly, nobody has a full understanding. But there are elements there and God has a relationship with everybody that’s outside of the Bible. The Bible is this wonderful book that can help us to know God’s love better and can help us draw near to God and to understand what is going on in the world and everything that’s going on.
Speaker 1
But the relationship with God goes beyond the Bible. And so it’s important, I think, to understand that people who live in these remote places and maybe have never heard, quote unquote, the name of Jesus, they may still know God and how that God has ways of reaching people wherever they are and in their ways to have relationship because it’s not just a knowledge, it’s an experience.
Speaker 3
Definitely. And just to comment, you have a comment but no dogs in heaven. I don’t think that’s true.
Speaker 2
I think when the Bible says no dogs, I think the dogs sometimes was like a language use refer to male prostitute. So that’s what I think they were talking about.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Not an actual animal.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 3
The book of Isaiah talks about all these animals being in heaven. So I’ll with plenty of animals, you’ll be able to have your pets, so it’ll be great.
Speaker 2
Yes, I’m definitely counting on being reunited.
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think God is merciful in that way.
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