If God forgives the sins of the saved, why was Moses not forgiven when he struck the rock?

Automatic Transcript Generated

Speaker 2

Alright.

Speaker 3

So Dorothy is asking, since God forgives the sins of the saved, why wasn’t Moses forgiven when he broke the faith in the presence of the Israelites?

Speaker 1

So I think Tina has a real good a way first approving that Moses was forgiven. And Tina, do you want to share that?

Speaker 2

You can share your answer first.

Speaker 1

No, please start there. So we can first directly answer the question. Then I’ll answer why I think the question is thinking what’s not there.

Speaker 2

I see. Okay, got you. I just want to just one and done. When I think of Moses and I always thought I thought that too. That begs the question, why didn’t Moses get to go in the promise land? And that kind of always bothered me in a way. But then when I thought about it, I’m like, no, God was right in what he did. But God, it was merciful too. But I think Moses not going into the promised land, not saying he wasn’t forgiven, but he didn’t go into the promised land quite yet. But he had to do something as an act of faith, which is he had to die in faith, believing that he would enter the promised land of some sort. And so if you read in the book of Jude, there’s actually a very interesting verse. This is interesting because this is the New Testament. This is thousands of years after Moses had died. And it says something interesting in June chapter one, verse nine, and it reads there in June, 1 night. Yet Michael the Archangels in contending with the devil when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, the Lord rebuke you.

Speaker 2

And so basically after Moses had died, we have Michael the Archangels. And there’s a whole lot I could say about Michael the Ark Angels. But basically Ark Angel means one who is head of the Angels and who is head of the Angels. Jesus. So yes, Michael is the head of the Angels. Jesus is not an angel. Jesus is God in the name.

Speaker 1

Michael means who is like God.

Speaker 2

Who is like God. Exactly. And just like Revelation twelve, you see Michael fighting with the devil again. Anyways, that’s another Bible study.

Speaker 1

And maybe I just quickly interject, what are they arguing about? Satan is probably saying, right, oh, Moses is a sinner, he’s mine. He wages in his death. He belongs to be in the grave. You have no right to resurrect them, right, exactly.

Speaker 2

And yet Michael, who I believe is Jesus in this instance, says the Lord rebuke you, they’re fighting over the body or the bones of Moses. And basically God is saying, look, devil, I rebuke you, you might accuse him of being a sinner. Yes, he struck the rock. Yes, he did something he wasn’t supposed to do, but he asked for forgiveness, he is mine. I’m taking him to heaven. And we know that he went to heaven because he appeared with Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration to Jesus before Jesus was crucified. And so we know that Moses had to have been forgiven because he went to heaven and he was with Elijah and Jesus. So obviously he was resurrected for the resurrection of going to heaven. So we can’t go to heaven if we’re not forgiven. So that’s my quick answer to that. But Jay, what’s more elaborate?

Speaker 1

Yes, I think that’s brought on we know. Yeah, he was forgiven. He’s in the real promise land now. And by the way, we have coming in from Lane. Hi to you. Thanks for joining us. And again, if you’re joining us, let us know you’re here. Just do a little shout out. Love to know. And if you have questions, drop them. We’ll love to answer them on the spot. So we have this issue. Yeah. Was Moses forgiven? Yes. But why would someone think Moses wasn’t? And let’s back a little bit, numbers 20, verse ten to eleven. Israelites are complaining like they always did, right. And they’re out in the wilderness. And God told Moses for a second time, they’re in different place, different rock. And God said, I want you to speak to this rock and water a gush from it. But what did Moses do instead? He’s in front of the rock and he says to the Israelites, he calls them actually a name, a put down. He says, here, now you rebels. What is it? Must we? Who’s the we? Probably him and Erin bring water out for you out of this rock. So he’s elevating himself, putting down the Israelites.

Speaker 1

And then next verse eleven, if we could put that up. Then Moses lifted his hand and struck the rock twice with his Rod and water came out, sorry, Moses struck the rock. He didn’t speak to it. And he puts down the children of Israel. And then he claims credit for leading them, providing for them, sort of getting that out of the picture. So to us, we might still think, oh, what’s the big deal? Right. But to God it is a big deal. And God wants to show it’s a big deal. There’s only one way that God is going to be able to show that it’s a big deal. So we come to numbers 27, let’s say verse 14. And context, Moses is pleading with God to let him go into the Moses land and Moses explaining, but in the wilderness of Zen, during the strife of the congregation, God said to Moses, you rebelled against my command. To do what? To follow me to hollow God. Moses is the leader of God’s people. He’s way up there many times. God says, in a sense, you are my spokesperson. When you speak, you’re almost speaking as my representative.

Speaker 1

You’re the leader of the Church, so high representative, you need to represent God and keep God Holy. And Moses totally failed in that moment. And God wants to. And if you one example of again with the importance of this, look at Leviticus Ten, three native and BAOU priest, sons of Erin. They take unauthorized fire. They try to offer it with incense and God immediately consumes them with fire. And we’re like, that’s horrible. But again, these were Reese, leaders of the Church, not following God’s instructions to keep God Holy. That’s such an important thing. If God is not Holy, we have a big problem, right? God has to be Holy to be God. For us to continue to look up to him, to aspire to him, to recognize the importance of who and what he is. So we come to Deuteronomy 323. Deuteronomy 323. Moses is telling a story about his conversation with God. He says, Then I pleaded with God at the time, saying, oh, Lord, God, you have begun to show your servant, your greatness and your mighty hand. For what God is there in heaven on Earth who can do anything that you can do?

Speaker 1

And in verse 25, he says, I pray, let me cross over, please let me go into the promised land, he’s saying, but God in verse 26 says, in verse 26, but God was angry with Moses. Why? The next two verses are really important here. God was angry with me. On whose account? Whose account?

Speaker 3

Your account.

Speaker 1

Your account. Moses is telling the story to the children of Israel. God was angry with Moses on account of the children of Israel. Moses sinned in front of the whole congregation. And if God let that sin go unchecked, the Israelites will begin to think, it’s not a big deal to not keep God Holy. It’s not a big deal to get angry. It’s okay to get angry, right? But then out of anger, to demean the people, elevate yourself, take credit for yourself, for things that are God. All these things is a big deal. God is trying to tell us, so God did it for the sake of the Israelites. And can imagine now the congregation is feeling bad because Moses died. Who did they realize, takes some blame in that they realize it now. The whole time, they’re always complaining, Moses, who made you leader? Who did this? Why do you did this? Why are these Morges in charge? Moses, why don’t we have this? And now when he’s gone, they realize what a terrible people they probably were that whole time. So God used this as an opportunity to teach the Israelites. Even when you have a leader in a Church, he might not be perfect.

Speaker 1

But we, even as followers, have the ability to influence our leaders for good or for bad. And we should be grateful for them. They’re in very tough positions. Often they are held to a much higher standard than we are. So we always keep these things in mind and talk about parents and bring it back to the theme of the day. It seems like God was harsh, right? Why would God do this to someone that God called his friend? But if you read in Revelation 319, it’s written, these are the words of Jesus speaking as many as I love, I rebuke and chaste in as many as I love. So the people I love are the ones that he rebukes and chasing. Hebrews twelve, six, for whom the Lord loves, he chastens and scourges every son whom he receives. Proverbs 311 to twelve, three verses eleven to twelve. Let’s put that one up to the words of Solomon. My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, nor to detest his correction for whom the Lord loves. He corrects just as a father, the son in whom he delights. So we could teach parenting from the Bible.

Speaker 1

How does God teach? I mean, God doesn’t let everything slide. Parents who let children get away with everything, never chasing them, never try to correct them, are terrible parents. Absolutely terrible parents. And those kids are going to grow up problematic. Now can you take correction and punishment too far? Absolutely. I think we’ll talk about with the next question or one of the next questions, how does God punish? How does he do that? And that’s I think it would be a lot of very informative for us and for parents. So, Tina, any other thoughts? Quite a mouthful there, right?

Speaker 2

No, but I love the story of Moses. It’s one of the most important stories in the Bible because it’s so relatable, whether you’re in a position of leadership like Moses or if you’re a member of a Church or a denomination where it’s so easy to be like the Israelites and not realize just how your actions are affecting other people. And I just think that that’s such an important piece of that puzzle is just the lessons here in this story and just thinking, how can I learn from it? So I don’t repeat these mistakes either. The mistake of Moses, if you’re in a position of authority, even as a parent like you’re, in a position of authority and just wanting to put a point, I know every time Lord help me make an example of my child, because I want her to see the right way. I want to give that example. And I think that’s so important because they are called the children of Israel because they were like little children, even though they were adults, they really were like children. They just come out of slavery. They had no idea. They really didn’t know the true God.

Speaker 2

And God was trying to teach them that through their time in the desert and through all these experiences. And so, yeah, I just think this is just such a valuable lesson in the story of Moses and just remembering the responsibility we have as Christians to those around us, whether it’s our kids or anybody that we have to we’re held to a higher standard, especially if we know better and that we need to seek God to obey 100% and be faithful even in the little things, even something so silly striking something, talking instead of striking something in our day to day lives, we can look to God for help and things like not having road rage, not slamming fists on our desk and our computer, just showing what an example of peaceful, loving Christian is.

Speaker 1

Yeah, we think of God being angry. Yeah, he’s angry. But maybe it’s more like that parent who their child keeps putting themselves in a dangerous situation. He keeps wanting to touch that boiling pot with water on it like, no, don’t do that. And you get upset that they keep hurting themselves, that they keep not following your rules that are in place to help them and you keep bailing them out and they keep not listening to you. If you’re in God’s position, I think we would be super angry. Yeah.

Speaker 3

And when you think about it, too, if we’re doing something that’s not good for us to be doing, that’s not going to lead us in the direction we want to go. Like, why wouldn’t we want to be corrected? And who better to correct us than God, who is perfect, who created us and knows what is perfect for us and what will get us the best results? And he’s providing that accountability and saying that’s not the way to go and go over here instead, go this other way instead. And who has the authority to do that other than God? He’s the only one.

Speaker 1

And on that note, we have a comment from Nancy.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

Would you like to read that, windy?

Speaker 2

Sure.

Speaker 3

Nancy says God wants us to come to him like a child goes to his or her father before the relationship is damaged. If you have a father that doesn’t live up to what a good and loving father should be and try to think of God as the father you always wanted and go to him like an innocent child with all your wounds, sorrows, wants, and for love and comfort, he is there for you.

Speaker 1

Amen.

Speaker 2

It is.

Speaker 3

And it’s so important to make sure that we don’t think of our own father as being God And that instead we think of God as being our father, and so often we do ascribe our own parentage to God’s character, and that’s just not the truth. Every person falls short of God’s character, and so we have to go back to God For what the example is exactly.

Speaker 1

Well, thank you so much, Dorothy, for that great question Because it really touches on some really profound concepts that I think a lot of people probably struggle with. Yup.

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