“I was angry with God for 5 yrs, in Jan ’22 prayed the sinners prayer..now having suicidal thoughts”

Automatic Transcript Generated

Speaker 1

So this one, James is asking I have asked that Jesus Christ come into my life three or four different times in my life, read sinners prayer. For the first five or so years, I have been angry, angry with God and even hated Him. I never prayed or worshiped during that time. In January 2022, I prayed at the sinner’s prayer again and I deeply regret hating God. So I have an abundance of questions. One, was it necessary to pray the sinners prayer, or was I still technically saved despite my five years of hate and rebellion? I never doubted he existed during that time. Simply his motive. Two, will all the times I had faith in Him from the past parts of my relationship with Him count towards this one, or were they invalidated by my rebellion and reassertion of faith? Three, I’m struggling with suicide and I worry that if I go through with it, that there will not be enough fruit because of everything and I will be sent to hell because of points one and two. In my current situation, I pray and listen to recorded sermons, et cetera. Thank you.

Speaker 2

All right, Brother James, thank you so much for this question. Thank you for reaching out. And I have lots of good news for you. And definitely you have been in our prayers this whole week and we will continue to keep you in our prayers. But let’s dive in and try to get question by questions. Number one, is the sinner’s prayer necessary? I think overall, the Bible is less concerned about what sort of process or method you use, whatever prayers you say, as opposed to rather, who is it that has accomplished salvation? Who is it that comes from who must you know, who must you have a relationship with? As Jesus says in John 14 six, he says, I am the way, the truth and the life. So what is the way to salvation? How do you get to it? Through Christ? That is going to be the answer. Doesn’t matter how you approach Christ, how you get to them. It’s through Christ you will find salvation. And then overall, the process of what we call redemption or being restored, restoration, it is a process, multiple steps. And so we’ll look at a few Bible verses and they’re all going to more or less say the same thing, but maybe in different ways and in different combinations.

Speaker 2

But it sort of goes like this. So maybe step one, if there’s a step one, is you feel that conviction in you, like you’ve done wrong and you need to change. And as you mentioned, James, for example, you said you feel bad. Let me try to find the word here. I deeply regret hating God. I think even word for word, that’s a great example of conviction and wanting to change. The next step we’ll see is repentance. So conviction and then repentance, that’s going to be actually turning away from the past weights not wanting to turn back and Bible use example of you know, there’s a path and we go down the wrong path and God wants us to get us off of that path and onto the path that leads unto life. That path is Christ, he’s the way. And then prayer is a big part of this and then there’s going to be public confession and this is often what we call baptism. But like the thief on the cross he didn’t have that opportunity but he did his sense confessed Jesus was God and then we have receiving of the Holy Spirit that’s going to be a part of this process and he will transform us over time to be more in God’s image and helps us suppress the evil within us and empowers us to do good and have the will to do good.

Speaker 2

And then we must continue in the doctrine like continue learning and what we learn we apply. And all this leads to our faith growing over time. A faith that will then bear fruit and works as we’ll talk more about. So here’s some verses that sort of in different ways fill in what I just mapped out. Second chronicle 714 says if my people who are called by my name humble themselves so I say that’s sort of referring to the conviction, repentance process and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and heal their land. Hear, God is promising if you do these things, humble yourself, pray, seek his face, turn from the brick of waves. What will he do? He will forgive, he promises it. He will. God is faithful. Romans ten nine to ten. Paul writes if you confess with your mouth, confession and confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart. So this heart, the heart aspect is very important for all this that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For the heart one believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made up to salvation.

Speaker 2

So there’s an inward change and then outwardly we have to be demonstrating what’s going on inside and we’ll talk about what you’re doing doesn’t save you. It’s reflecting the faith that saved. Acts 319 one of the apostles said, repent therefore and be converted. Converted that your sins may be blotted out. And this blotting out, we’ll talk about it but I mean if it’s blotted out and says blotted out, it’s like they never happen. It’s huge. And then it goes on. So that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord and times of refreshing can be a way of referencing also the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit being present and dwelling in us. Acts 237 to 42 now when they heard this they were cut to the heart. So this is during day pentecost. Peter gave the sermon. People who hear it are cut to the heart, so they’re feeling convicted. And Peter goes on to say men, brethren, sorry. These people then say, what shall we do? And Peter responds repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit for the promise, the promise is to you and to your children and to all who are far, as many as the Lord our God will call.

Speaker 2

And with many other words, and we’ll talk about later, how many has God called? Actually, everyone. And with many other words he testified and exerted them, saying be saved from this perverse generation. Then those who gladly received his word were baptized. And that day 3000 souls were added. And they continued steph essely in the apostles doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and in prayers. So different ways all these things come into place. Now, James asked was I still technically saved despite my five years of hate and rebellion? And I mean, as we’ve seen here, there’s not been any qualifiers as to what sins would be forgiven or not. It’s sins and sins. Jesus is a bit more specific, actually. Matthew twelve, verses 31 to 32. He says, Therefore I say to you every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven of men. Every sin in blasphemy except for one. Jesus says, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Amen. And we could go on, what is the blessed for me of the Spirit, that’s a very nuanced thing. That’s basically like James, you think you’re rebelling against God, but no, probably not.

Speaker 2

You’re not going around saying that the Christians are wicked, they’re evil, they have false Holy Spirit, and then someone who’s doing in the church of Satan, those guys really have the true Holy Spirit. That’s an extreme example, but I don’t think you’re doing anything even close to that. And if you never repent of that, never turn around from that, and you’re just so far off the deep end, you’re totally in Satan’s camp. That is more or less the sin that’s not forgiven, the sin that you will never repent and confess. Go ahead.

Speaker 3

So I’m hearing you right. So I’m clarifying. You’re saying that the sin of the Holy Spirit, the blessing of the Holy Spirit is only when you don’t confess the sin, correct?

Speaker 2

No, I’m not saying that. If you go to verse 32, Jesus says anyone who speaks a word against the Son man is forgiven. It will be forgiven him by who speaks against the Holy Spirit. It will not be given him either in his age or the age to come. So again, we could go a bit more depth about it, but there is an element of attributing things falsely of how the Holy Spirit is acting. But I think God’s still saying, if you do it intently and you don’t repent of it because people who really do that intently and are so far off the deep end, yeah, they are beyond help. And then there is that sin of reaching a point where nobody can, where the Holy Spirit just gives up. The Holy Spirit is trying to prod us, and if we keep resisting the prodding or the goads, if you read the King James version, eventually you just don’t feel it and you become cold. And then again the Holy Spirit will just say, okay, fine, you don’t want me with you, I will leave. And that’s when, again, you’re pretty much in a hopeless.

Speaker 3

Which doesn’t sound like James, because James is coming back to the Lord.

Speaker 2

Yeah, exactly. Thank you. And just don’t doubt God. God is not eager to torment, eager to not save. It’s the exact opposite. Second, Peter 39. Peter says, the Lord is not slack concerning his promise. See, we have this word again, promise, as some counsel blackness, but is long suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. God wants as many to be saved as possible. His will would be that everybody would be, except God respects people’s decisions when they choose to totally stay in rebuilding and never leave rebuilding. So let’s go on now to another thing. There’s multiple questions James had. So James says, I never doubted he existed during that time, simply his motive. And so this reflects a lot of people’s belief that belief in God is just believing he exists. But James 219 is spot on. And James says, you believe that there is one God? You do? Well, he says there’s mockingly. Oh, good job, you believe there’s a God. But he says, but guess what? Even the demons believe and tremble. All right, so even Satan knows. All these demons know there’s a God, yet they’re going to be destroyed.

Speaker 2

They have unbelief. The question is, do you really believe that God is as God says he is, that God is love, that God fulfills his promises, that God really does want to save you? Do you actually believe that? You actually believe that there was the Jesus Christ, the Christ who was God, who came down, who died for your sins when he’s on the cross, he’s there for you because he loves you, because he wants to save you, because he wants to spend eternity with you, because he wants you to be his son or daughter. Do you believe that that is what faith really should be? That’s what Bible talk about. Like, do you believe in God? And then if you really have that faith, if you really do believe that God is love and God loves you, you’re going to be so transformed by that love that then that love will bear fruit as when he was mentioning earlier that will bear fruit in you. And you should be showing that love to others. So James says, james two, verse 20 to 26, I’m not going to read the whole thing, but he says, but do you know a foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

Speaker 2

And he gives an example. Was not Abraham, my father, justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? And we know he actually didn’t kill him, but he was willing to offer his son. And by doing that, by going through the process and picking up the knife and knife and being willing to actually kill him before God stopped Abraham for killing his son, abraham proved he believed God so much that he would do whatever God asked. Like that is faith. Abraham proved it by what he did. Abraham already has a faith. Abraham was already saved, but he demonstrated it by his faith. That is real faith instead of record.

Speaker 1

God’s not calling anyone right now to go take a knife. No.

Speaker 2

And for most of us, if someone tells you to go do something like that, probably not from the Lord.

Speaker 1

That is not God at this point.

Speaker 2

Abraham knew God so well that he would know when such a crazy instruction issue actually came from God.

Speaker 1

And that was a prosthetic thing towards Christ coming, which is now in the past. So God is not calling anybody to that direction.

Speaker 2

Exactly. It’s important to always remember that God is there. He’s present. He wants us to be connected with them. John 55 jesus says, I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me and I in Him bears much fruit. You see, we cannot bear fruit on our own. We have to be connected to Jesus. And he says, for without me, you can do nothing. We can’t do anything good. We can’t do anything he will without actually his help. So it’s really God working through us that accomplishes the good works. So if we don’t have faith, we’re not going to see the works because God isn’t able to do them through us.

Speaker 1

I’m really glad you put this in here because this is such an important concept when for someone who’s dealing with low selfworth and feeling like their life isn’t worth living or isn’t worth doing existing, it’s a really hard place to be there. And a lot of times people get there because they feel like nothing they’ve ever done is good enough. But this is like a Biblical antidote here to recognize that actually what we do on our own, that’s why it’s not good enough, because it’s us doing it. But when we recognize that our job is just to be connected to Christ and connected to his character, to his love, to his love, and to just be a vessel of that love, to just be in that presence and show up in that way to other people, that is what gives us worth and value in his eyes and really in our own soul. In who we are. And so we have a great purpose at that point in time and that can help to lift us up and elevate our mindset about ourselves and our value and our worth. Because God just has to connect with me and be a vessel of my love to people.

Speaker 2

Exactly. And go back to like, this is why Christianity is different than any other religion. Is there any other religion that says that we can actually not save ourselves and that we can’t do any good on our own and that we just have to depend on God work it through us? Yes, we have a role play, but it’s not about you. It’s about who you know and what they do through you. That’s Christianity. And that’s what’s so amazing. Again, it’s like God doesn’t leave you out to dry. God doesn’t say, I’m going to wait for you to do what’s right. He says, I’ve already done everything to prepare the way for you to re establish your connection with me. You just have to desire it and want it, and then he’ll be there to graft you into Him. And Jesus doesn’t want you to just do good. To do good. He says in John 1415, if you love me, keep my commandments, he wants you to do that love first, have that love for Him and then do it. And that love should be in response to his love. We love Him because he first loved us.

Speaker 2

In one John 418, it says, there is no fear in love, because perfect love cast out fear, because fear involves torment that he who fears has not been made perfect in love. And James, this verse especially for you and many other people who are in the same situation, because you have not yet known really the love of God, because if you know the love of God, you’re not going to have the fear, the doubts, the concerns you have. Now get to know Christ again. He is the way to salvation. He wants you to be saved. He’s promised that you could have salvation if you repent, turn from your ways, see Kim, remain connected in Him and cooperate with the Holy Spirit within you. So James says, well, all the times I have had faith in Him and God from the past, parts of my relationship with Him count towards this one, or were they invalidated by my rebellion and reassertion of faith? So there’s again Bible verse spot onto this. It’s Ezekiel 33, verses 1120, long one. So it says, Say to them, as I live, says the Lord, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

Speaker 2

Right? So God doesn’t want anybody to die, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn from your wicked ways, or why should you die, O house of Israel? If this guy’s attitude again, it doesn’t want anybody lost. Therefore you, O Son of man, say to the children of your people. The righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression. So just because you’ve been a good guy in the past doesn’t mean that if you go off the deep end later on, you’ll be saved and it goes on. As for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall because of it in the day that he turns from his wickedness. So just because you had a wicked past doesn’t mean you’re stuck with it and forever condemned. So God’s saying, yeah, your past is always meaningless. God cares about here and now. How are you today? What are you doing today? Now is the hour of salvation, as the Bible says. So, verse 13, it says, when you say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity.

Speaker 2

So look at it. So if he’s trying to be a good person on his own and do good works on his own, god says, none of his righteous works shall be remembered. It’s only by faith. With God working good fruit through us, that is righteousness. When you’re trying to do it on your own, you’re going to fail. You’re not going to be doing good and going to end up just like the Israelites who tried to keep God’s law on their own accord and that bombed terribly, says, but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. So God has to be bearing good fruit in us. We have to be connected to him having the real faith. And again I say to the wicked, you shall surely die. But if he turns from his sin and does what is lawful and right, if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live. He shall not die. None of his sins which he has committed shall be remembered against them. Of course, it keeps going, but here, spot on.

Speaker 2

God is showing, I don’t care what you’ve done in the past, I care who you are now. Third question or third point? So we’re close wrapping up James questions. He says, I’m struggling with suicide and I worry that if I do go through with it, that there will not be enough fruit because of everything and I will be sent to hell because of points one and two. In my cursor situation, I pray and listen to recorded sermons. So first, James, good news. There’s no thing like burning forever hell. That is a myth. That is a lie of Satan that is plucked straight out of Greek mythology and pagan religions. That actually is not what God of the Bible says. Remember, we’re just reading these Eagle 33, and God says, Why should you die? I don’t want you to die. And we say here, the wages of sin is death. And God told Admin Eve the day that you eat the fruit of the tree of evil, you will die. Nowhere does God say penalty is burning and sin forever and ever and ever. And yeah, there’s some verses that you might think, look might be saying that, but those are only a handful of verses and if they are inconsistent with the other 99% of the Bible, that’s a good sign.

Speaker 2

We’re not interpreting correctly those other verses.

Speaker 1

And I think it’s important here to recognize also that a lot of this death that is being talked about is like death to the soul that God has given us. That’s for the life that God has given us.

Speaker 2

Okay? And this is why it is important to be keeping in mind it’s death because Price paid the debt for our sins. So what did he do? He died on the cross. Price didn’t suffer burning in hell forever and ever. So if God had to pay out our debt and our debt is burning forever and ever, that’s what Christ would have had to do on the cross. And he didn’t. He died on the cross. The consequences of death. And so let’s talk about that now about death, because you’re saying you’re struggling with suicide, you feel like you should die. And I’m going to say this in one of those situations where that voice in your head is telling you a partial truth, yes, we got to die. All of us as sinners deserve death and must die. Everybody dies. Question is how and what do you really need to go through that death? That line voice in your head is telling you I have good news that you can die the death you want to die and yet live. You can put the you you don’t want to be a part of anymore to death.

Speaker 2

You can walk away from that old you and you can be a new creation in Christ. That’s what the Bible says. And it’s so beautiful and I love this. It’s so counter modern culture. It’s so counter cancel culture which says you are that person who 20 years ago did something stupid. That’s not God. God again cares about you into here and now. And God says, I will overlook all your past sins. I will love you now because you want a relationship with me. That’s what God says. And God will say, in fact, I love you even when you are a sinner. For when we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. That’s how he showed his love for us.

Speaker 1

And that includes all those times you’ve talked about that you regret doing things. God actually loved you not because of those things, but in spite of those things. He loves you when those things were going on and he still loves you where you are right now. And he wants you to know his love for Him more than anything else. And so letting that rebellious side die, letting the inappropriate anger and hatred and disgust and those kinds of things die so that the good part can live is what Scripture is calling us to giving room for God’s love to connect and draw us near to Him.

Speaker 2

Exactly. And I now want to turn to Galatians 216 to 21 that I think holds together a lot of this. Galatians 216 and Jesus says, or Paul writes, knowing that a man is not justified by works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ, even when he has believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law or by the works of the law, no flesh shall be justified. But if while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves are found sinners, is Christ therefore administer of sin? Certainly not. But if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor saying, don’t go back to sin, don’t want to know Christ of the cross. Again it says, but for I through the law died through the law that I might live to God. So live to whom is he living now? To himself? No, he’s now living for God. When you give yourself to God, you can stop worrying about yourself because you now belong to God. So it’s now up to God to worry about you. Your problems are not your problems anymore.

Speaker 2

They are now god’s problem. Think about that. Cast your cares upon him. Worried about your house, like God, this is now your house, God, you worry about it. This helps me all the time to get recentered and all that. And now it’s not about are you doing good enough works to get to be saved? Now it’s like, God, I’m yours now use me to bless others. And now you’re focusing on trying to please God and bring as many other people to Him. So it’s a total mindset shift. And that’s the state God really wants you to be in going on to verse 19, Paul writes, I have been crucified with Christ. You catch that? Paul says, I have been crucified with Christ. So when Christ was on that cross, you were on the cross with Him. I was on the cross when he was on the cross. So we died when Christ died. So this is how that penalty was paid for sin. If we accept that, it says it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So now that Paul, the old Paul, the Paul was a persecutor of the Church who was rounding up and trying to kill Christians or lock them up, says that part of me is dead now it’s dead.

Speaker 2

And now what lives is Christ within him, so he can now find life to Christ. And the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith and the Son of man who loved me and gave himself for me God loves us. I’ll end with this verse here. There’s so many we could keep going to James. I hope we’ll talk about how we can stay in touch and with others too, because these are important topics. Colossus three, five to twelve. Paul rides put to death therefore what belongs to your earthly nature. He lists a bunch of terrible things. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways in the life you once lived, but now you must also read yourself of all these things. Anger, rage, ballast land or filthy language. On and on and on but he goes. Verse twelve therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, close yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.

Speaker 1

Wow. Can I just step in here for a second? This is so fascinating to me because when you look at the forms of therapy for people who struggle with mental illness. Especially for people who are dealing with a mood that’s just kind of swinging them around and causing anger and outbursts and then thoughts of suicide and this back and forth kind of thing. Some of the therapies that are most effective for that are ones that deal with compassion. And it’s so fascinating to me that right here it is in scripture that God is saying, close yourselves with compassion and kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. That is the healing antidote. When we see that we have anger about something and then we get mad at ourselves for having anger about something, as if anger is in and of itself bad, then we get hard on ourselves and we keep beating ourselves up. And that’s not what God wants. There’s anger, that’s justified. But there’s often healthier ways we can learn to handle these kinds of things. And that is what God is calling us to hear. Compassion and kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. If we choose to focus on those things and grow those seeds in our heart and our soul, we can have life through an abundance and health, through embracing and growing and nurturing those parts of us.

Speaker 2

And if you do a bit more research in the Bible, you would understand those clothes come from Christ. They’re Christ robes of righteousness that we put on. So it’s not even finding that within ourselves, it’s allowing God to put those clothes on us and accepting those clothes.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And I also want to add to this also Jeremiah 20 911. Can we bring that first up here? This is such an important verse that I know has just been life saving for so many people who have struggled with suicidal thinking. And if we can bring up your mind, I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord. Thoughts of peace and not of evil to give you a future and a hope. God is thinking these thoughts towards you. In another translation, I know the plans I have for. You says the Lord plans to prosper you and not to harm you. And so God has the plans for you, to prosper you to hope and peace towards you despite all of the struggles you’ve had. This is his plan for you. And so we want to encourage you to draw near to that plan and to draw near and seek his love for you, his compassion, his kindness, his grace, his mercy, and ask for Him to fill you with that spirit. Ask for Him to give you that spirit towards yourself for everything that you have been through and experienced and done in life and also towards other people around you.

Speaker 1

That’s what he is calling you into and it’s very different than what the world calls us into. It’s a whole different way of viewing things. I hope that this has answered your question and I do want to put up here also for anyone who is seriously struggling with suicidal thinking, it’s really important to reach out for help. This is not a time for you to try to take care of yourself. This is I mean, yes, you want to do everything you can to take care of yourself, but you need support, you need help. And so we really want to encourage you and we’re going to put the National Suicide Prevention Hotline up here that is always available to you. It’s 24/7. You can call somebody and get the help, get support to get you through that hard time and get you connected with more people who can support you on your healing and recovery.

Speaker 2

James, if you haven’t done it or feel like you could call to do it again, you can die the death God wants you to die. And you could do it in a special ceremony that’s a public confession of your faith and will mark a special time of the determined turning point in your life. And that is baptism. That’s what baptism represents. The going under, the dying and being born again a new creature. And that’s why God has given us that ceremony. So we can say like at this time, at least at a point in time, I know I could say I have died and put that self behind me. You could do it without it, but I think you might appreciate that and you could feel within you being satisfied because now the old you will be.

Speaker 1

Dead and it can connect you to a family of believers and supporters who are there then to support you and provide accountability to you in your continued healing journey. Immunity is so important when you are struggling with mental illness and isolating is not good. Getting out around people, interacting with people, and learning how to develop healthy relationship interactions is one of the most important skills to have to combat these feelings that bring you down. So we really encourage you to connect with community and develop those skills for furthering that connection. With other people and nurturing that.

Speaker 2

That’s about all I have to say about that.

Speaker 1

Anything, tina.

Speaker 3

Very beautiful, but tearing up. But I just want to say one last thing to our friend James out there. As soon as I saw your question, I grabbed my husband. All the time you’re praying for this person. So I just want you to know, sorry, James, that you have people that care about you, that are praying for you. And you have a God in heaven that loves you very much. And it would break his heart and break our hearts for you to separate yourself from Him and from this world by taking your life. That’s not his plan for you. His plan is for you to have that hope in the future and to share the testimony you can have to other people that even if you have a past, even if you hated God, no matter what, it doesn’t matter.

Speaker 1

God doesn’t care.

Speaker 3

He just wants you to turn to Him and live. And so I just want to encourage you, my brother James, that God does love you. In two Corinthians, chapter five, verse 17, it says if any man being Christ, he’s a new creation. Old things have passed away, it doesn’t matter. All things have become new. And so you can be a new creature in Jesus Christ, and he loves you, and he wants a new walk with you. I just want to encourage you that you can turn to God and to turn people who care. And in the future, if you have other questions or just need some prayer, feel free to reach out to us. That Bible asks, that’s what we’re here for, we’re very grateful for. We get a lot of prayer requests. And so just know that we’re praying for you, our brother, and anybody else out there who needs prayer. We appreciate you guys reaching out and being a member of our community. So we just are praying for you again, James, and we ask that God blesses you and that you continue to turn to Him and walk with Him even when your feelings don’t make you feel close to God.

Speaker 3

It is by faith that we know the truth of the Bible. We know God’s plan for us. We know that God says, if you confess your sins, I am faithful and just to forgive you and cleanse you from all righteousness. And so, no matter what, you can know by faith in your mind that what the Bible says is true and that God loves you. He has a plan for you and he wants to save you. And he has a life more abundant as you’ve continue to give your life over to Him.

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