Eve was punished simply because she wished to gain knowledge and independence. Why?

Automatic Transcript Generated

Speaker 3

Walter is asking, hello. It’s a well known fact that the Bible denigrates women, starting with the terrible punishment of Eve when she simply wishes to gain knowledge and independence. That Eve event sets the stage for eons of female suppression and abuse. Why? All right, Tina, you better take this one.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Well, my friend Walter. Okay, I want to dissect this a little bit because basically you’re under the assumption that the issue is that Eve was seeking knowledge and independence. And I’m here to tell you that that is not what she was after. And I can prove it honestly. Here’s the thing. And I think God understands us more than we understand ourselves when it comes to. Well, first of all, I don’t think the Bible is responsible for women being denigrated and oppressed. I really don’t. I think that after sin that women, of course, have been oppressed in many ways, that has happened. I’m not saying that has, but I don’t think that’s God initiating that or desiring that in any way, shape or form. Because throughout the Bible, you see instances of Jesus and God valuing women and in a special and beautiful way that maybe the world doesn’t even value. But Jesus values like you look at the story of the Samaritan woman in John chapter eight, where Jesus speaks to her and she’s saying, you’re a Jewish man speaking to me like, why are you even doing that? She was shocked. She was taken back because Jesus said, I don’t care.

Speaker 1

I love you, you’re my daughter. And Jesus desired a relationship with her. And so I don’t think the Bible in any way denigrates women. I think Jesus, you see, in God’s will through Jesus, God lifting up women. And there’s also some Bible verses to back that up. But when it comes to Eve, I want to go into this story a little bit because there’s something very key in understanding what Eve was after, and it wasn’t knowledge and independence. Now let’s go back to that story first.

Speaker 2

In Genesis, it was or wasn’t.

Speaker 1

She was not after. Sorry if I said that wrong. She was not after knowledge and independence. She was after something else. So let’s go to Genesis, chapter three, verses one through six, just to take a brief look at that story. So if you read in Genesis chapter three, verses one begins here’s, the temptation. It says, now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, Has God indeed said, you shall not eat of every treatment of the garden? And so, you see, in verse two, Eve goes on to say, it says, and the woman said to the serpent, we may not eat of the trees. We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden. So she answers him. And verse three says, but the fruit of the tree, which is in the midst of the garden. God has said, you shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die. Now, quick question. I just want to stop there for a second. Did God say you cannot touch it? No. She added to God’s word she initiated in herself.

Speaker 1

And it wasn’t a bad thing to not touch it because obviously if you’re touching it, you’re probably getting too close to it. But God never says you shall not touch it. She added words to God’s word. So there’s that. So she had all the knowledge. She knew plenty. And she thought she knew maybe even more than God, I don’t know. But we see here an instance she wasn’t quite right. And verse four, it says, then the serpent said to the woman, you shall not surely die. So the devil basically tells her a lie to make her doubt God’s word. And if you think about it, what do you think God has said probably the most clearly to his creation, which is, I love you, right? That’s honestly, I think one of the most important things God’s ever said to us is God’s great love for us, which I believe he spoke to his people. And we know God loves us. God says he loves us over and over and over in the Bible. I mean, John 316, the most famous verse of the Bible is saying, God so loved the world, God loves you. And so here we see the devil giving her a question or making a statement giving her a lie that’s basically making her doubt God’s word.

Speaker 1

Now keep going into the next verse in verse five. And it reads, for so the devil saying, for God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. And so basically the devil is making her doubt her, trust in God and really in essence, her love to God’s, love to her. And if you know anything about women, the most important thing we need to feel in life is love. And if we don’t feel that we’re being loved, that is a huge betrayal. And so here we see the devil putting doubt in her heart and in her mind of what God’s promised to her. And if God’s saying, don’t eat of it, you’ll die. And the Satan is saying, no, you won’t die. Something good will happen. God’s trying to hold something back from you. That’s basically again, her doubting God’s word to her. And if God’s not true in one thing, how can we trust him? If he’s saying other things like, he loves us, he cares for us, he’s good to us. So here we see in verse six what Eve ended up doing, Genesis three, verse six.

Speaker 1

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, so she decided it was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes. And the tree desirable to make one wise. She took its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. So not only does she take the fruit that she was not supposed to eat, she goes and gives it to her husband, which caused basically sin for all the generations to come. So she initiated in essence. Now, here’s the thing. As far as her sin and seeing the fruit desiring it and all these things, this goes back to a verse that you read about in first John, chapter two, verses 15 to 17. And I just think it’s interesting because it matches it so well. So she saw the fruit that it was desirable. It’s described as having three attributes. She saw that was good. It looked good to her. It was desirable to make one wise, and it was something good in her mind. And so if you look compare this to a verse in first John, chapter two. And I want to read all three verses in one section.

Speaker 1

First John, chapter two, verses 15 to 17, because here I kind of just see them matching up. So the Bible says, do not love the world or the things in the world. So I really think this is again, an issue of love. Here the Bible saying, hey, just like Eve don’t love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. She was doubting God’s love for her. She did not have reciprocal love for God at this time because she disobeyed him. And you see this clearly in verse 16. It says, for all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life is not of the Father, but is of the world. And if you go back to that verse in Genesis three, five, excuse me, you’re right. Sorry about that. It says that she saw that the tree was good for food, lust of the flesh, it was pleasant to the ice lust of the eyes and desirable to make one wise, the pride of life. You see, it perfectly seen in this verse because she was not after just getting smarter and more independent.

Speaker 1

No, she was after pridefulness. She was after lust. She wanted stuff for herself. That was the issue here. And if you go back to one John, chapter two, and look at verse 17, it says, and the world is passing away in the lust of it, but he who does the will of God abides forever. So here we see again, if Eve would have done the will of God, which was just don’t eat this fruit, she would have abided or lived forever. She would not have died. She would not have brought sin and selfishness into the world. So again, like I’m saying, I really think that this issue goes down to the root issue of love and that she was doubting God’s love for her. And when she doubted God’s love for her, she then started desiring things that weren’t of God. She no longer had love for God or absolute love for God. She was like, you know what? Maybe I need to love myself and I’m going to do things my way and I want this fruit because it’s going to be good for me, it’s going to make me wise. I’m going to be exalted.

Speaker 1

She was beginning to love self and self and pride was building in her and that’s what caused her to fall. And I think this is so important because honestly, I think love, or lack thereof is the root of so many problems when it comes to basically with women. And God in his wisdom gives a solution for that and that he calls men to love their wives. And you see that in Ephesians, chapter five, verse 25. If we can go there really quick, I’m just going to wrap this up. Ephesians, chapter five, verse 25, and it reads, for this, you know, oh, excuse me, 25, Ephesians 525. Did I say that wrong? Let me go there. Sorry about that. It says, Husbands love your wives, just as Christ also loved the Church and gave himself for her. So again, the issue, the solution that God gives for women in fulfilling our needs is love. We desperately need love and we need love from our husbands. And I can tell you there is nothing more hurtful than thinking my husband does not love me, but there’s nothing more wonderful and feeling that security inside than knowing my husband loves me and he would give his life for me.

Speaker 1

I know he loves me that much, and that is true. And I praise God for that. My husband loves me. I really have the best husband ever. But when it comes to men, it’s a little bit different. And you see that if you go on in Ephesians, chapter five, verse 33, it actually reads that women, we need to reverence or respect our husbands. Again, it says, nevertheless, let each of you in particular so love his own wife. Again, God says, again, love your wife as himself and let the wife see that she respects her husband. And honestly, I think that that’s what came down to the issue with even God is she didn’t respect God enough to obey his word. And I think that that’s kind of the relationship we see with men and women. Men need respect, they need to feel respected and women need to feel loved. And I think again, God here gives us a solution to a big problem that we have with him and we have with each other is that women, we need to respect men and not exalt them above us and worship them. God’s not saying that, but just show them respect.

Speaker 1

And in turn, men need to love and cherish their wives and just love women in general, if you love women, you won’t hurt them, you won’t oppress them, you won’t denigrate them. That won’t happen because when you love somebody, you value them. And just like it says in Ephesians chapter five verses, I think it’s 22 and 23, it says, just like men love your wife, just like you would nourish your own body. That’s how you need to love your wife is the way you would love yourself and take care of yourself. And so again, like I’m saying, I don’t think the Bible denigrates women at all. I think the Bible elevates women and puts things in the right balance. And just like in the story of Adam and Eve, Eve was made from the rib of Moses, which is at his side equal, not up here, not down at his feet, but at his side. And so, you know, we’re in Christ, it says that we’re equal. Men and women are equal, but we just have a different role and we need different things in the relationship. So again, I think the Bible just has a beautiful solution to a lot of the problems that have come in the world.

Speaker 1

And I don’t think the Bible in any way is a platform or any kind of reason to oppress women, but rather to put things in harmony. Jay or Wendy, do you have any other thoughts on that?

Speaker 2

Amen.

Amen.

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, I think let’s go back to Ephesians 525, cause I think that is a critical verse that you mentioned there about husbands love your wives, and that’s even a higher standard than what the women call to just respect their husbands. Husbands need to love the rise and just not loving them as the world might love them. But just as Christ loved the Church and gave himself for her, this is God’s idea of what a marriage should look like. That’s what God had intended. That’s what he wants. Even today. This is what God is telling us we should do, how our marriages should be like. So when we go back to Genesis, let’s look at Genesis 316 and let’s take a look what God says in what people call the curse. It says so it says, according to the King James, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception. So if we look at actually the Hebrew and I could be wrong. I’m not a Hebrew expert, but I’m trying to dig into the Hebrew and I don’t find that I will in the actual Hebrew. That’s a Hebrew to English translation. It might be more rather like, this will happen to you.

Speaker 2

These things are going to happen to you because you sinned. So there’s what’s called the Bible and basic English. It translates this verse to the woman, God said, Great will be your pain in childbirth, in sorrow will your children be born, still your desire will be for your husband. Now there’s another Bible translation version called The Remedy, which is an excellent translation, too. This one says and this one really explains it. I think what we’ve been talking about to the woman he God said, because my design of love has now been replaced with fear and selfishness, having and raising children will be very hard and filled with sorrow. Fearful you will seek protection from your stronger husband, but he will dominate you. Do you see the difference here? It’s not God is proclaiming a curse. God is saying, I’m going to necessarily go out of my way to really punish you. What God’s saying is as a natural consequence of the decision you made to not listen to me, to not obey my Commandments, to go your own way, you now are going to have to suffer the consequences of that. And this is something we see again and again throughout the Bible where God makes people or allows people to suffer the consequences of their decision because most people learn the hard way.

Speaker 2

And if the consequences of sin were light and God just kept saying, it’s okay, I’ll make sure you don’t suffer anything bad from it. What is God going to teach us? Just think, if you have a kid who keeps reaching for that boiling pot and if you keep handing them a lollipop every time they do it, yeah, they’re going to keep doing it, you’re going to encourage them to do it. So if they at some point just don’t listen, they don’t have any respect for you, they don’t trust you. At some point you might just have to let them grab that pot. I’m not recommending parents do that. Right. But figuratively, you let the kid get burned a little bit, you don’t want lasting pain. Right. And God will make sure none of our scars are permanent. God can give us a new body and new life. That’s what he promises. This life that we’re living right now is about us making a decision about whether we do trust God and whether we want to live in his way of love. And yeah, as Tina explained, Eve chose to go against that love. She chose to doubt God.

Speaker 2

Love does not doubt. Love does not distrust. And she wanted to be like God. She envyed God. She wanted to be like God and she wanted to elevate herself uplift herself, whereas love does not puff up. So she went against God’s way of love. And as a natural consequence of that, now sins in the world. And now we’re selfish, we’re all fearful, we’re all trying to take care of ourselves or we want to exalt ourselves over other people. And yeah, unfortunately, because men are the naturally physically stronger of the sexes, unfortunately, then when son comes into the picture, now they’re going to use that strength to dominate. Sadly, women kind. God does not want that. And as Tina said, Jesus again and again always lifted up the women when he first appeared. Who did he chose to after being resurrected. Who did he appear to?

Speaker 1

Mary Magdalene.

Speaker 2

To Mary Magdalene. And so he gave her that honor. And yeah, the disciples like, well, we’re not going to believe Mary’s account. She’s a woman. God purposely wanted to humiliate them by first appearing to the woman. And she had probably the strongest love for him of anybody else, too. We just see again and again where women play this role, like the woman that was caught in act of adultery that some people say was Mary Magdalene. And again, Jesus lifts her up and we just see that everything we see is Jesus is treating women as well.

Speaker 3

If not better than men throughout the Bible. So the Bible doesn’t denigrate women.

Speaker 2

I should clarify that, especially reading King James. You see a lot of times where Jesus and pastors are here doing this, they’re quote Jesus and Jesus said woman, woman. That’s not a good translation. Yeah, that’s what the King James says, but it really should be lady or Madam. Jesus was using a very formal, respectful word when he would refer to women. He’s not just a woman do this for me. Woman do that. I’ve seen lady.

Speaker 3

Madam, we really got to understand these are cultural issues that have come into play and human issues that have come in humans have chosen to use the Bible to denigrate women.

Speaker 2

Yeah, we’re 6000 years from the Bible itself didn’t denigrate women.

Speaker 3

This isn’t a false interpretation.

Speaker 2

We’re so steeped in sin, our background, our framework, everything is corrupted by sin. And really, God’s working hard, really hard to call us back into his proper way. But we have to strip aside our bias, all false teachings. And again, even some of our translations might bring into some of these false perspectives at times when we’re going into the English Amen and I just want to make sure we just add this verse because I think it’s just very important.

Speaker 1

Galatians, chapter three, verse 28. If we can just have it on the screen, God, it doesn’t matter if you’re male or female. God loves you the same. That’s not an issue with God. And you see that Galatians 328, it says there is neither June or Greek, there is neither bond nor free. There is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. So again, in no way is saying that women are lesser than men. Actually very clearly says you are all one in Christ. And if you want to see it in the beginning, you go back to Genesis where it says in male, female created, he them. I want to say Genesis. Is it chapter one, verse nine? I don’t think so. Might actually be two. Sorry. Genesis 27. My bad. If you go to Genesis, chapter one, verse 27, this is just the most beautiful verse. I think it says God created man in his own image, in the image of God created, he him, male and female created he them. And the reason that God puts this three times is it’s Jewish poetry to repeat something and this is the only instance that I know in the Bible where God repeats something three times, sometimes something is repeated twice in a verse.

Speaker 1

If you look in Psalms things will be basically said the same thing but in a different way. But this is the only part where I see three of something repeated because God is saying this is special to me, this is valuable and says male and female created he them in the image of God. Men and women both the same, are made in the image of God and so again there’s no lessening if a female is made in the image of God.

Speaker 2

What more exalted position could you be placed in and even more in the image of God when we are together in a unity like God is a unity, do we have a comment that just came in? I think talk about what you’re just quoting there it says it’s called a chaosic writing. So I think about where you have sort of this repeating stress, in a sense, definitely people should look up chaosic because that explains a lot of how the Bible is written, especially revelation.

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