Automatic Transcript Generated:
Speaker 1
Alright, so this is from Deborah. And again, there’s three things here. So I’ll read all three and then we’ll go through them. Deborah asks, I read readings that say the 1000 years will be on Earth. Then I read the thousand years will be in heaven. Which one is it? Next part is what would be the purpose of letting Satan free after the thousand years to gather unbelievers for battle if it is not on Earth? And then the last part is I read the unbelievers that hold on. Trying to get my head around this. I read the unbelievers that Satan gathers are also descendants of believers who are living in the thousand years that did not believe in Jesus because they were having children born to them. For the believers in this 1000 year time, with no temptation from Satan because he is locked up in this time, Satan is not allowed in heaven. So how will he get all these unbelievers if it’s not on Earth? Okay, so let’s go back to the first question. The context of all of these here is really what’s God telling us about what’s going to happen at the end and Satan’s influence.
Speaker 2
What is this, 1000 years or the multiple thousand years?
Yeah.
Speaker 1
So I read readings that say the 1000 years will be on Earth. Then I read the 1000 years will be in heaven. Which one is it?
Speaker 2
You look like eager to try it. I love all these questions. They’re great. All right. A good rule of thumb when reading books like Revelation and Daniel is they really are trying to tell you the same thing over and over again. So just because something is repeated doesn’t mean you’re seeing something new. So, for example, in Daniel, it talks about this times and half a times, and Revelation, you see that come back again, you see 42 months mentioned and you see 1260 days. Are these all different periods? No, it’s the same time. It’s just talked about the same period of time of the Antichrist reign. So same thing here. When Revelation is repeating it, I was giving you a slightly different perspective. It’s like a movie sometimes where a movie might jump back and forth between two people and they might be living simultaneously. Right. But you’re getting two different perspectives. So that’s exactly what’s going on here in Revelation 20. If you look at Revelation 20, it talks about how this angel comes down. I wonder why we were so dark.
Speaker 1
I think so.
Speaker 2
Good catch. So this angel comes down, has a key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And actually, maybe it’s going to be easier if we answer some of these questions together because we just go line by line through Revelation 20 or is that going to take too long?
Speaker 3
I know. And I was thinking about this too, because I was just like, man, you almost have to read the whole book or a whole chapter of Revelation 20 to kind of answer this. The simple answer to question for this to me is both. That’s my answer. Is this in heaven? Is this on Earth? Is it 1000 years, heaven or Earth? The answer is both.
Speaker 2
But it’s the same period of time which some people call the Millennium.
Speaker 3
Yes, exactly. But what’s happening on Earth is different than what’s happening in heaven. And you kind of get that picture here in Revelation 20. Do you want to kind of skim through it?
Speaker 1
Does that work or sustainably summarize?
Speaker 3
It a little tricky to do that.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay. So I guess we can sort of just quickly summarize it. So you have this imagery of an angel coming from heaven and he has this keto bottomless pit. Bottomless pit. A lot of people struggle. What is that? That’s the same term like void, the same exact word that’s used in the Greek Old Testament. So when Jesus would lie, they had this book called the Septuagint. It was the Hebrew translated into Greek of the Old Testament. And that word that they use in Genesis one, that the Earth was void and without form, that Greek word they used to translate that is the same word. John’s user right here for bottomless pit. If you rate the profits of like Isaiah, Joel, Jeremiah, you can just go down through this list. They’re all talking about this devastation of the Earth. Where the Earth? If you flip earlier in Revelation Two, you hear about these giant earthquakes. Everything is leveled at the second coming of Jesus. Like the Earth is totally devastated. Everybody’s dead. There’s a feast of birds, birds just pick away on all the flesh because all humans are dead. And Satan now is chained to the Earth.
Speaker 2
He can’t leave it. And what is it going to do now if everybody is dead, who is it going to attempt? Right now? He’s roaming around the world like a roaring lion trying to devour everybody. But when everybody said he’s got nothing to do, we are looking at Earth, as Landon said in his comment, you’re looking at 1000 years of heaven and then there’s also 1000 years of Earth, that same period of time. Earth is devastated, nothing’s going on. And what is Satan going to do then for those thousand years? What can he do?
Speaker 3
He’s going crazy. But I mean, in the sense it’s kind of like his punishment, his jail time, you know what I mean? Like he’s basically confined to this Earth with no one to tend, nothing to do. He’s going to go crazy in a sense, just with no ability to do the wickedness that he wants to do.
Speaker 2
And then hopefully he has all this time to sort of have some self reflection to think about what he’s done for the past 6000 years, how he’s devastated people’s lives, how he’s rebelled against God. So I think God is giving him, especially this time to think we don’t know what exactly happens with his Angels. Presumably his evil Angels will be there with him, too. Maybe they’ll play chess, who knows? But they’re going to be bored, sick. So that’s sort of Revelation 20, verse one through six, and it actually tells us, oh, sorry, that was Revelation 21 to three. Now, Revelation 24 says, and I saw Thrones and they that sat upon him and judgment was given unto them. And I saw souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Christ and for the word of God and which had not worshiped the beast. Basically, people who are sealed with God seal, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. So we know if you read earlier Christ, he gathers his people Thessalonians and talks about how the devil raised and the people be United with those who are living, will be United with those who are dead and would be gathered.
Speaker 2
Christ often uses the imagery of a gathering, says, people will be gathered, they’re in heaven, and it says there’s Thrones and they’re reigning with Christ. This is a time of going through the books. I think we’ve mentioned before, the books of everybody’s life. Just think about it. You get to have it. And what’s the first thing you’re wanting to do? But who’s here? Is Tina here? Windy there is my mom there.
Speaker 1
You meet Jesus in person.
Speaker 2
What’s that?
Speaker 1
I kind of like to meet Jesus.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah, you’ll meet Jesus as a person, but we’re all going to be gathered there. I mean, you go somewhere you’re always looking for. Do I recognize anybody? And that’s what we’re going to be doing. And we’re going to start realizing certain people are not there. And then we’re also going to be surprised that certain people are there. And so God has given us this period of time to go through double check God’s work. Does this make sense, what God has done? Paul says, do you not know that you shall even judge Angels? Right. So we’re also going to be looking at all the wicked Angels. Why are they not? Why did they get cast out? So this is a very important time. This is really, I think, the judgment when God’s people get to judge, it’s not that we get to decide people’s fate that’s really decided, but we’re going to look at it and we’re going to realize God is just and true. And that’s a theme that comes up in Revelation as people keep talking about, oh, God, your judgments are so good. You’re so just so fair. Because people have realized God is loving, he is merciful, he is kind.
Speaker 2
He’s given people every single chance possible to repent, to be saved, and yet they have not.
Speaker 1
So essentially right now, a lot of people live it kind of in the fear of God’s judgment. But really, like, we’re going to judge God as well.
Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s a good point. Yeah. Really? Who is being judged? It is sort of us judging God too. That’s exactly it. Satan has been warning against God, trying to convince us God is not fair. God is not loving. God is a tyrant. God is this and that. And this is a time where I guess you could say we get affirmation for just how good God is. And he’s so transparent.
Yeah.
Speaker 2
He’s not hiding anything. He’s like, look, I’ve documented everything of everybody’s life. I’ve documented everything done for them. Everything they’ve done, everything they rejected, everything good, everything bad. They’ve done. He’s got it all. Oh, with one exception though. If your name is in the book of life, if you’re in heaven, your sins are blotted out, they’re gone. Nobody’s going to see those. That’s what’s amazing, right? Thank God. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Thank you.
Speaker 3
To kind of summarize the answer for a friend, does the Millennium or the thousand year period, does it happen on Earth or in heaven? Just to summarize, what Jay said is that on Earth, the thousand years, there’s a work going on on Earth and work going on in heaven, on Earth, the Devil’s here, possibly with his Angels, basically bound, he’s with a chain. He’s just stuck here being in a sense, like a prison cell. He’s stuck here on the Earth while God’s people. Like it says in verse in Revelation 24 that those people, that they live and reign with Christ a thousand years. And it’s interesting to read one quick thing. In verse five, it says, but the rest of the dead live, not again until 1000 years were finished. This is the first resurrection, blessed and Holy is he that has part in the first resurrection on such the second, death has no power. Just like you’re kind of saying one, Thessalonians four, it says the dead and crush on rice first, and those that be alive will be caught up with them. So everybody who’s raised in that first resurrection, they’re saved, they’re in heaven.
Speaker 3
And we spend like you’re saying that 1000 years reading the books, going over things. It’s a time where we can kind of process what just happened on planet Earth. And I think God is so merciful in giving us that time. So it’s a time of healing for God’s people up in heaven, and it’s a time for a punishment for Satan on the Earth. And then once that time is over, then we see the destruction of the world.
Speaker 2
Yes. And maybe that goes into some of the next questions. Right. So what would be the purpose of that estate and free after a thousand years to gather and believers for battle? Is it not on Earth? So we turn to the very next verse, Revelation 20, verse seven, it says, and when the 1000 years. So no. So there’s only 1000 year period. It’s confirmed in Revelation 27, Satan shall be loose out of his prison. And again, what we’re saying was a prison that’s the Earth fully destroyed, voided people. So how would God sort of lose Satan so that he could go about his business? He can only tempt people. If people are dead, he can’t tempt them. So God is going to resurrect people. If you scroll later down, revelation is not necessarily written in chronological order. That’s a very good concept to remember too. That makes it a bit confusing. But we do see that the dead were raised up later on. The wicked versus 20, verse twelve and 20, verse 13. Talk about the dead being brought back. So Satan goes, tempts these people and he shall go out to see the nations which are in the four quarters of the Earth, GOG and Maggot to gather them together to battle.
Speaker 2
The number of them is as the sand of the sea. Can you imagine every single person who’s ever lived who’s not with God? Which how many people got on the Ark versus the rest of the whole population? Not many. So if history teaches anything, the masses do not choose to be on God’s side. So SATA is going to have this huge army of most people who’ve ever lived, and then you have all people who are Godly with Christ. This could be a lot of people alive at one time, but Satan’s going on to tempt these people and they went up verse nine on the breath of the Earth Compass, the camp of the Saints about them and the beloved city. So what’s that talking about? Takes a short bit in reverse order. If you read the next chapter, it talks about how the Holy city comes down onto Earth and it actually lands on Earth. So the New Jerusalem is there. Satan causes all the weak people to surround the Holy city while it’s on Earth. It says, and then fire came down for God out of heaven and devoured them. Boom. So now they’re gone and the devil got to see them, was cast into Lake of fire and he is destroyed.
Speaker 3
So basically the purpose in that is again going back to the justice of God and us understanding God, because God is arbitrary and he wants to have a real relationship with us. It kind of almost goes back to the thought of, why didn’t God just destroy Satan in the first place? Why did God allow suffering and sin for all these thousands of years? Why would God do that? And it goes back to God’s character and us being able to judge. Was God fare in this whole dealing with sin? Because if he just wiped out Satan from the beginning, that would look a little suspicious, right? This guy came and accused God of being unfair, just like he told Eve. God says, what’s going to happen if you eat this fruit? And she says, we can’t eat it or we’ll die. And Satan says, Thou shalt not surely die. God just doesn’t want you to have something good, he’s withholding something good from you. And so Satan calls God a liar and he basically tries to show that God’s character is not fair and not loving. And so in allowing us this thousand year period to go through the books to see why some people are in heaven, why some people aren’t.
Speaker 3
And to see what God has done over this 6000, however many years that it will be before God brings all this to an end, we can kind of just say without a shout of a doubt, like God was fair. And when we come down, those who are saved and they’re in heaven and they come down in the city, they’ll see those who are not in the city. And in a way it’s kind of Alaska by as heartbreaking as that would be. But knowing God was fair, God was merciful and God did everything in his power to save these people. And the Bible calls God a consuming fire. Now if we’re part of God’s fire, it won’t consume us. Just like shadowy nishik and Bendigo, they went through the fire and because Christ was with them, they were never burned. They didn’t have the smell of smoke on them, but the strong men that threw them in the fire, they were destroyed just by throwing these people in the fire. And so it’s kind of the same thing. If we’re with Christ, his all consuming love will not destroy us, but rather it will give us life.
Speaker 3
Just like fire, more fire just grows with more fire. But if it’s the wrong material, it’s going to burn it up. And that’s kind of what we see here is we see by the fire of God what people are made of. Are they truly in their inmost soul good and loving or is there wickedness that they’re holding on to, that they’re just not willing to ever let go?
Speaker 2
Yeah, and maybe you did say it, but maybe it’s a recap. So what’s the point then? Let you say it and loose to tempt all these people who are ready, condemned. If there was any doubt in our minds, right, and maybe there might still be like God, please, maybe, can we give these people a second chance?
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
So now they’re in front of heaven, they see God’s glory. Now they can’t say, Well, I didn’t know Jesus was God, I didn’t know God’s real thing. Okay, well now they’re faced with God, now they’re in this Holy city or sorry, around the Holy city, but what happens? Are they going to be peaceful with God? It says they go to make war, right?
Speaker 3
Yeah, they go to try to destroy God’s people.
Speaker 2
They surrounded the camp of the Saints of the beloved city.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
It says Satan gathers them up together to battle. Yeah, he’s gathering up to war against God and God’s people. Revelation 28. So they had a final chance. In a sense, God already knows their faith. He already knows their character, already knows they don’t want to be in heaven.
Speaker 1
Yeah, but he’s giving them one last chance and he’s giving them every opportunity to turn from it. The only thing he’s not doing is literally forcing them to change.
Speaker 2
And look what happens if God does not intervene. What is going to happen? God’s people are peaceful. They don’t want to kill. They want to hurt a fly. And they’re surrounded now by Hitler and Stalin and all the most evil people who’ve ever lived and other people who are maybe not so evil, but tons of people who are bad, eager to blow things up and say, hey, I’ll let you guys stick around, have fun, do things, continue to torment?
Speaker 1
Yeah, I continue to torment those who have chosen to.
Speaker 2
Understand sin is deadly. Then God said at the very beginning, if you eat that fruit, you’re going to die. Sin and death are so closely intertwined. It’s almost like a law of nature that sin brings about death, not just to the one who sinned, but to even to those who don’t sin. And that’s the significance of Christ on the cross. Christ is not sin. Christ does not deserve death, but we even see death or sorry, sin causing death of the perfect being, God himself, who is the creator of all things. Sin cannot be tolerated because sin is intoleration. Sin is destruction. Sin is suffering, and God has to bring an end to that.
Speaker 1
Isn’t it interesting, too, this pattern that we see, we see it here, and we also saw it with the crucifixion of Jesus. We saw it with the way Noah’s family was treated. We see it with many characters in the Bible where those that are doing good are being attacked by those who are steeped in wickedness, and they didn’t do anything to provoke it. The wickedness is what is an evil is what is provoking.
Speaker 2
It hates righteousness.
Speaker 1
It hates righteousness.
Speaker 2
Yeah. You go to the beginning. Cain versus Abel. Abel did absolutely nothing wrong. Able did what was good and right. And Cain hated Abel because of his righteousness.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And it’s interesting that for the one, the person who is seeped in that wickedness, they’re angry at people for being good, for doing good, for not sinning. Maybe because they’re angry at themselves. They’re angry at their own lack of restraint or lack of handling it. And then that brings them face to face. When they see someone that actually has that strength of character and that steadfastness of character, it’s riling up that anger in them.
Speaker 2
Jealousy. Like if this person is gone, I don’t look so bad, right?
Yeah.
Speaker 1
They see that wickedness, and then they can’t handle it, and it comes out at those that are good. And it was unprovoked.
Speaker 2
There wasn’t if you had two kids and one kid was perfect, did everything you asked, was quiet, was respectful, was kind, kind, loving, perfect. And then you have another child who keeps stealing from your other child, keeps beating up and hurting your other child, always lies to you, torches your house, kills your dog. I mean, you just keep on going. And nothing seems to turn this kid around. Nothing. So all the experts, everybody said, yeah, this kid is a sociopath. He’s only going to get worse. He’s going to become a serial killer, and then he actually does end up murdering someone. What are you going to do with this kid?
Speaker 1
You can’t let that person be around other people because it’s a disruption. It’s to the harmony. It creates a severe danger to everybody else. And God has to separate the wicked from those who have turned from wickedness.
Speaker 2
And we haven’t even talked about how God is merciful not even letting the wicked be in his presence. I think you sort of hinted at it. Talk about how fire comes from God. And God consumes people. The Bible says God is a consuming fire. His presence is flames of fire. And he purifies. He cleans. Unless you are like gold, which then gets even more pure in his presence, you’re going to get burned away. He’s so kind, so loving, so bright, so perfect, so good. If you just looked at his face and saw the emotions and the kind of joy in his face, it will kill you. You will want to kill yourself. I mean, there’s Prophet Isaiah, right? When he sees God, he says, oh, boy’s, me, I am undone. He thought he’s going to die. Now I saw God is so good, so perfect. I am just an absolute horrible sinner person.
Speaker 1
And isn’t it interesting how the closer we come to God, the more we get to know God’s character, the more we realize the issues that we’re dealing with. And I think about some of the things that God has helped me overcome in my life and changed in my life and in my character. And I look back and I think, gosh, if I had seen all of these things at one time ten years ago, I couldn’t have handled it. I really couldn’t have handled that much change at one time if I had been aware of it all at that one time. But God doesn’t do that. He loves us enough to gently, with long suffering and patience, lead us step by step as long as we commit to be on that path and say that that’s the path we want to be on. He meets us where we’re at, and he lets us face one or two or maybe five issues at a time. But he doesn’t make a space everything at a time because we literally could not handle it.
Speaker 2
So we got a comment from Michael Gray. I think it goes along with what we’re talking about, too.
Speaker 1
Let’s go ahead and pull that comment up.
Speaker 2
It says, the other thought is that God destroys sin. Those who claim to sin will be destroyed along with it going back to what we’re talking about. If you don’t want to be like Gold tried in the fire. Revelation two, sorry. Revelation three, you will be like dross and you will get purged. You will hold on to your sin. You want identify with your sin, you love your sin, you’re going to perish with it. If all you like to do is pornography, listen to violent hateful music, play video games, watch violent movies. This is your life. This is all you do. This is all you care about. Oh, and then you like killing animals and eating their flesh. You just go all the way down. How are you going to like it in a new world where there’s no killing, no meat, no sex, no violence, no movies? I mean, there’s not going to be anything for you. You’re going to be miserable.
Speaker 1
You’re not going to like it unless you make the change. You decide that you want to love what God loves, you want to enjoy what God has put forth for us to enjoy. And you want to pursue that path. That want has to be there, that desire has to be there. And that choice, we don’t have to be perfect right away. We just have to make the choice that that’s the path we want to be on is heading towards God’s character and embracing the elements of that.
Speaker 2
I kind of like how all these questions sort of fit this theme. I don’t think we could have planned it better.
Speaker 3
Have we got to the last part of the question it’s kind of longer about she says, I read the unbelievers that Satan gathers are also descendants of believers who are living in the thousand years that didn’t come to Jesus. Did we ask that already?
Speaker 2
Kind of indirectly answered it by saying that basically it’s all wicked people, whoever lives, as you read earlier, there’s two resurrections, sort of the first resurrection. In the second, if you’re in the first resurrection, God’s going to pick you up and bring you to heaven with him. Yeah. You want to be in that one.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
But if you’re in the second resurrection, you’re with all the other wicked people who ever lived and you’re in the Magog group.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And just to head on, address it, no people are born in the Millennium. I know that that’s a popular belief. I believe in the Rapture theory that during that thousand years, there are seven years where some people convert back to God. And I’ve heard that there’s people that are that’s kind of the basis of the Rapture is that some people are born during this Millennium time and they’re saved. Anyways, it’s a little bit interesting. I had an interesting discussion with a friend of mine who believes very strongly in the Rapture, and I respect her opinion. But I have to humbly disagree, just on biblical grounds, because it’s pretty clear that God’s people are resurrected and they’re in heaven and Satan is bound to the Earth, and the wicked don’t live again until the end of the thousand years. And that’s when they’re resurrected for the second resurrection, which is that of the lost. And the Bible is very clear in trying to remember, is it Luke, Matthew 22, 34 in the resurrection. So after we’ve been resurrected in the resurrection, they neither married nor are given in marriage, but are as the Angels of God in heaven.
Speaker 3
So nobody is born. There’s no children being born during the Millennium period. So you don’t have I know that that’s kind of a popular theory. And I’m sure you’ve read books like Left Behind, things like that that’s a little more mainstream. However, there’s really no biblical grounds for that that I found personally.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And I like to read a little bit out of second. Peter three. That’s okay. Peter three start at verse eight, because I think it’s a ties together everything we’re talking about, including the Millennium. And so it begins. Don’t let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord, one day is like 1000 years and 1000 years is like one day. So you have to hear about the great day of the Lord. I think it really is talking about this Millennium, this 1000 year period, when beginning with the sick coming to Christ and then ending with the completion of judgment and destruction of the wicked. So a thousand years, like a day and 1000 days is like a year. The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some counts slowness, but is patient towards you, not wishing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance. I know you read this verse earlier, but it’s so true. Why has it Jesus come yet? Because he’s patient. He doesn’t want anybody to perish yet. He wants us to get on the Ark.
Amen.
Speaker 2
But the day of the Lord, verse ten, will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the Earth and its works will be burned up. So it is going to end. This 1000 year period is going to end with, well, it’s going to come like a thief, but if you read just because we don’t anticipate when it’s going to happen, it’s going to catch you by surprise. Right. But it’s not going to be like it’s a secret thing nobody sees, because how does Peter go? He says the heavens are going to pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat and the Earth and its worst will be burned up. I mean, nobody’s going to miss this. Like the Millennium is going to come with that big bang. A real big bang. Yeah. So since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in Holy conduct and Godliness looking for in hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning and the elements will melt with intense heat.
Speaker 2
But according to this whole problem is we are looking forward to a new heavens and new Earth in which righteousness dwells.
Speaker 1
Amen will be able to live righteously without the temptation of sin, without the pressure of sin. In that time.
Speaker 2
Yeah. There will only be righteousness. There will be no wicked people, only people dwelling.
Speaker 1
There will be no wickedness. Yeah, there’ll be no wickedness, period.
Speaker 2
And that’s got to be a beautiful place, a beautiful time.
Speaker 1
It’s, like, impossible to even imagine that, like, so much. There’s just so much wickedness in our world and so many challenges that come up and provoke us and tempt us and ruin our drive. Right. At that time. None of that will be there. So we’ll be able to live righteously. It’ll be easy just because natural. Yeah. Because we want it. We want to make it to be that way. It simply will be that way.
Speaker 2
God’s love will be in our heart. We’ll have a new heart.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Let’s dive into our last or do we want to do you want to hit that topic tonight?
Speaker 3
Yeah. It’s up to you guys.
Speaker 2
I could keep going, but yeah, let’s do it.
Speaker 3
As long as we do it. I didn’t realize the time.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 3
All right.
Speaker 1
So Sharon asks, can you explain the latter ring?
Speaker 3
Yes. And that is a huge question. Yeah. I’m sorry, Jay. I don’t know if you wanted to jump on that.
Speaker 1
If you feel in his own dive in, you start.
Speaker 3
Honestly, I’m going to give a pretty simple response. And obviously my answer. I mean, as much as I can just answer with the Bible verse, that’s what I want to answer. I really don’t like adding my words as much. I know sometimes you kind of explain things, but if you read Book of James, chapter five, verse seven, it says, Be patient, therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold the husband and waits for the precious fruit of the Earth. So it’s talking about coming to the end of time when there’s precious fruit. And I’ll show you another verse. What I think that fruit is fruit of the Earth and has long patience for it until he receives the early and latter rain. So my understanding of the early and latter rain, or basically the latter rain, is it’s the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. So the early rain that it’s talking about is that of the early Church at Pentecost. That’s the early rain before the coming of Jesus, there’s going to be the latter rain, which is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. There’s going to be a revival in God’s people such as never been.
Speaker 3
And this precious fruit that God is talking about here, if you go to Revelation, chapter 14 it talks about God’s people being 144,000. Now these are a special group of God’s people. Now God has saved people from the time of the beginning to now. There’s people who are going to be in heaven from thousands of years from before Christ because they had faith. Like Abraham, he believed God and it was counted him for righteousness. So anybody who had faith in God before Jesus, and everybody who has faith in God from the time of Jesus, in his sacrifice at the cross, we all have Salvation through the Son of God. But this special group of people at the end of time is something special. If you go to Revelation 14 and I’ll read really quick and it says in verse one, and I looked in love, a lamb stood on Mount Sign with 144,000 having his father’s name written in their foreheads. So not just literally father’s name written in the foreheads, in their foreheads meaning their mind. They have the father’s name which is his character. They reflect the character of God. And so this is a very special group of people because they are perfectly reflecting God’s character at the end of time showing the world who God really is in the darkest hour.
Speaker 3
Now if you look down the next few verses, it describes how Holy these people are. It says they sang a new song. It says verse four, they are not to file with women for their virgins. I think there’s more spiritually speaking that they are not speaking of their purity and they follow the lamb wherever he goes. They were redeemed from among men being the first fruits unto God and to the lamb. So these are God’s first fruits. These are God’s most special groups because they fully reflect God’s character at the end of time when the Mark of the beast is going on. And again you see this later on in the chapter where it says in verse 16, it says in another angel came out of the temple cry crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, thrust in thy sickle and reap. So it’s like a sickle like when you reap in a harvest for the time has come for the harvest of the Earth is ripe and he that sat on the cloud thrust a sickle in the Earth and the Earth was reaped. And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven.
Speaker 3
And having also sharp sickle. And it says in verse 18, thrust a nice sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the Earth for her grapes are fully ripe. So basically at the end of time there’s going to be two groups, the 144,000 and the wicked. And these are going to be the most wicked people who take the Mark of the beast and then there’s going to be God’s most Holy people, the 144,000. And so these are the first fruits and those that reject God’s way and choose the Mark of the beast. Once they’ve chosen it, that’s it, they’re done. They will not repent of it. But those who choose God in this most difficult, troublest times are God’s first fruit, and they have an outpouring of the Holy Spirit on them like no other. The gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end shall come. Matthew 20 414. So these people, they take the world by storm, proclaiming the gospel, and everybody knows the truth of God’s word or the truth of the gospel. And they’ve either chosen it or they denied it.
Speaker 3
And those last people on the Earth, the 144,000, are this first fruit, and they have that ladder reign that outpouring the Holy Spirit. That happens just before the coming of Jesus is my understanding.
Speaker 2
Very good. Wow. You cover it all. Just a little bit of additional, deeper perspective. I’d like to give it just like, what is the significance of rain? How does that complement what you were saying? When was the first time rain actually shows up in the Bible? And it’s funny because it fits with what we’re talking about today. Right.
Speaker 3
Right. Yeah. No, it’s time.
Speaker 2
Yes. So rain was not really ever a part of God’s original plan. And so it’s gradually rain water, miss it up through the ground and water plants that way after flood. Now water rains down from heaven. So I think this concept of a lot of raining and all this, this is something that never would have happened before the fall without sin. But yeah, God has to compensate as the world gets darker. You’re talking about, right? Things are harder for God’s people. We have to depend on Him even more so. And we need to now rely on water from heaven to sustain us. We need this Holy Spirit to really get us through those trials like the 144,000 cannot do what they do exactly without the laddering. And then there’s this interesting concept of this ladder. If there’s a ladder that is a former, there’s sort of this first round of reign in the second round. And if we look at Deuteronomy eleven, starting at verse ten, God talks about this concept of two reigns. And so it talks about God saying that this land talk about the promised land you’re about to go into is not like the land of Egypt, which Israelites were leaving.
Speaker 2
If you recall, in the land of Egypt, they had the Nile River. And the Nile River always supplied their needs, so they never had to pray for rain. They always could count on the Nile to be there, too, for the most part, to provide for what they’re trying to grow. But in Deron eleven, verse eleven says, but the land into which you’re about to cross Israel is a land of Hills and valleys that drinks water from the reign of Heaven, a land for which the Lord your God cares. The eyes of your Lord God are always on it from the beginning, even to the end of the year. And it shall come that if you listen obediently to my commands, which I am commanding you today to love the Lord your God and to serve him with all your heart and all your soul, that he will give the rain for your land in its season, the early and the late rain that you may gather in your grain and your new wine and your oil. So what is God saying here? He’s saying, without me taking care of you, you’re going to starve their crops.
Speaker 2
And everything that they grew in the promised land was dependent on two rains, the early rain, which you plant the seeds in the soil, and it started the seeds growing. And then you need the late rain that gave it that big boost to then ripen the crops. And they needed both of those to happen to have a good, successful year.
Amen.
Speaker 2
As you said, you look at the Christian history, the early rain came right at Pentecost, that sort of got Christianity going, and then God s going to close us out with the later rain. And it’s got to be even bigger. Better, I would say, than the early rain. Right. Because we got a big harvest to eat.
Yes.
Speaker 2
But it also has, I think, a personal application, too. Even we talked about the verse in Genesis where it says the Spirit of God is contending with the hearts of men like we all to some degree have the Holy Spirit in us unless we’ve utterly rejected it and it’s left. So we also have a little bit of initial all part of spirit.
Speaker 1
Or maybe we were made in the image of God and the character of God.
Speaker 2
Well, that doesn’t necessarily mean you have the Holy Spirit or not, but the Holy Spirit is there to help us, restore us to the image of God, to make us more kind, more loving. All the fruits of the Spirit is how God wants us to be. We call the fruits of spirit because we don’t have those abilities within ourselves. Love, joy, peace, happiness. Right. We need a Holy Spirit to bear those fruits in us. And maybe a lot of us in our spiritual walk, we have encountered with Christ. Right. And we get reformed. We’re like, Bam, we feel really transformed. Maybe you could say again that’s maybe like the early rain.
Yeah.
Speaker 2
But what’s interesting is John the Baptist says, I baptize with water, but the one who comes after me will baptize with fire. Fire. And the Apostles talk about like Paul, I think, you see, he’ll go places and they’ll talk to people realize, oh, these people are all converts. But he asked around like, oh, you guys aren’t doing miracles. You’re not speaking in tongues. You aren’t healing. You don’t have gifts of prophecy. You guys need the Holy Spirit and then they’ll pray and call and Bam, they will get baptized now with they were baptized with water and then they’ll get baptized with fire. And this is something that a lot of Christian churches have lost sight of. I would say. Now the Pentecostal movement to their credit has recognized the importance of this.
Speaker 3
I’m sorry. When John the Baptist says he’ll baptize you with fire and with the Holy Ghost.
Speaker 2
Oh, there you go. So you’re not even left into doubt about what he’s talking about. Good point.
Speaker 3
And it’s Matthew 311 and Luke 316. Just FYI, if you want that for your reference. I’m not just making enough stuff.
Speaker 2
I’m so glad because I know these things, but I always have to go search. Okay. Where was this?
Speaker 3
I do, but yeah, sorry I didn’t interrupt you.
Speaker 2
No problem. Glad you did. That’s basically my point is that the Pentecostals to the credit emphasize the importance, I would say, of the latter reign of having this huge infusion of the Holy Spirit into a person. And I think we would disagree with what they think it looks like, but it is something that really we should all be eagerly praying for. And in the Judo AMI, as we read, God says what’s this key to getting the Holy Spirit to getting rain? He said basically you have to if you listen obediently to my Commandments. So Bay’s Commandments to love the Lord of the God and serve him with all your heart and your soul and then he will give you reign.
Speaker 3
Amen.
Speaker 2
We got to love God.
Speaker 3
Amen. I wish I would have brought this up earlier. So in James Five where it talks about the Ladder rain, the early in the Ladder Rain where we first mentioned it later on in the chapter, James brings up the story of Elijah and it says Elias, which is Elijah was a man subject to like passions. It’s the same name just with a different accent, just like Juan and John are the same name just in a different language. Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are. And he prayed earnestly that it might not rain and it rained not on the Earth by the space of three years and six months. Kind of interesting that three and a half years, right? God’s awesome. His word is amazing. And then verse 18 says and he prayed again and the heaven gave reign and the Earth brought forth her fruit. So it is by prayer. Jesus says ask for the Spirit. Jesus says ask for the Holy Spirit and God will give it freely that we have to be asking for it and we have to be praying. And just like the early Apostles, they prayed for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 3
And it says when they were all in one accord and basically they put away sin, they put away differences within each other. How wonderful would it be if Christians actually got together, prayed, put aside their differences, humbled themselves, asked for forgiveness of how they hurt people. That’s really what God is looking for is the people humble and praying, praying and wanting God’s Spirit, wanting God’s will for their lives and to outpour his Spirit to show the character of God which is character of love. And I think that that’s sometimes the hardest part of this whole thing is us to recognize like, hey, I am a messed up sinner. I need God. I need this Holy Spirit. And the only way I’m going to be reflecting that spirit of love, joy, peace, patience, long suffering, temperance, all those things is only if I ask God to put his Spirit in me so that the fruit of that will be the result. Otherwise, it’s just the works of our own self righteousness and our righteousness is a filthy rags, whereas Christ righteousness is something worth holding on to. I think that that’s so important. Like you’re saying how do we get that Holy Spirit?
Speaker 3
Definitely we have to be walking in obedience to God because if we who has sin, God doesn’t hear his prayer. Like if we hold on to iniquity, we can’t expect God to hear us. But if we come to God saying, God, I’m a sinner, forgive me, help me, change me, I repent of my sins. God will listen to that prayer every time he’s faithful. Just forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And if we ask for the Holy Spirit, God will freely give it to us. But again, we have to be getting our hearts ready and be people of prayer. And people of prayer should be people of action and they should be acting like Jesus.
Speaker 2
Amen.
Speaker 1
A beautiful note to wrap up on. It looks like you have another verse you’re looking for.
Speaker 2
Well, let’s just pull it up because some of those verses where Jesus says like ask and receive and things like that, I think it directly follows with and then you’ll get the Holy Spirit, especially in the context of the Holy Spirit, that some of these verses are about asking for gifts. I think it’s the one about their Father.
Speaker 3
Yes, Luke 1113 do you want to read that?
Speaker 2
Luke?
Speaker 1
If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?
Speaker 2
Yes, Amen.
Speaker 1
Amen.
Speaker 3
God is good. Why God gives us his Holy Spirit, I don’t know.
Speaker 1
And just all the time because we need it.
Speaker 2
We’re hopeless without it. That’s fine.
Speaker 3
One quick thing about God’s Holy Spirit, how important it is, there is something that a friend told me, I didn’t come up with this so I can’t take any credit whatsoever. But somebody brought this up with me to me in two Corinthians 122 and it says who has also sealed us so God seals us as his people and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. So not only did God give us his Son for our Salvation, but he gave us the Spirit as an earnest. An earnest is a down payment or deposit. Yeah, a deposit. Right. You give an earnest for your house, like you have to give a deposit so that the people know that you’re good for the big pics for the whole thing. So God saying, Look, I’m giving you Salvation through my son, Jesus Christ. He paid for your Salvation. It is yours for the asking. And just to prove to you, if I haven’t proven it enough by giving you my son, I’m going to give you my Holy Spirit as a down payment. Like, how good of a God do we have to give us these amazing gifts?
Speaker 3
And so that’s why the latter and the output of the Holy Spirit is so important. People need to know. They need to see God’s Spirit living in his people to see that, hey, there’s something to this down payment. We can take this to the bank. We have no reason to doubt God’s love for us and our Salvation because God has given us the Spirit. And even though we don’t get to see Jesus now, we can definitely see the fruit of the Holy Spirit in us as we ask for it and as we allow God to live in our hearts and our lives.
Speaker 2
Amen so beautiful. It’s exactly true. And yeah, if you think about it, our dependence on the Holy Spirit, that sort of makes us fit for heaven now.
Speaker 3
Yes.
Speaker 2
And then when we get to heaven and are in the new Earth, hopefully by that point, our character is such that we don’t have to depend on so much. Who knows? I mean, maybe we’ll continue to have an intimate relationship with the Holy Spirit, but I still think sort of like how the rain only existed after the sin and after the flood. I think we have a very unique relationship right now with the Holy Spirit that we might not have ever again.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And remember when Jesus said, I go to heaven now, don’t worry about it, because I’m going to send a comforter. And Jesus makes it sound like you’re going to have something even better than me being physically present with you. The Holy Spirit now is going to be with you. And now God is not just a person that we can interact with outside of us, but now God is actually in us. So now we get to us abiding in God and God literally abiding in us.
Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly. And that’s kind of interesting. That’s like the mystery of God. Isn’t that Colossians one?
Speaker 2
Oh, I like where you go with this.
Speaker 3
You know what I’m saying?
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Am I not mistaken? Colossians one? Sorry, let me look really quick. Sorry, I don’t have every verse memorized, but I do love the Bible, but I know it’s. Colossians 11 27 27, thank you. To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory? So how does Christ dwell in our hearts through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? And again, if that latter is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, that means everybody’s going to see the God Spirit living in us and it’s going to catch like wildfire and yeah, I’m excited.
Speaker 2
Yeah. We use the word Grace often as Christians to just talk about how God will forgive our sins. So therefore we could do anything and everything we want. Right? God’s Grace will cover it all. It’s true. Like no matter what we do, God is willing to forgive it if we repent. But there is another Grace. We’re told about the Grace of the Holy Spirit and it’s Ministry where not only does God forgive us of our sins, but by the power of the Holy Spirit working within us, he’s causing us to live by God’s laws and to overcome. Jeremiah, right.
Speaker 3
There’s a verse in Titus, chapter two, verse eleven, for the Grace of God that brings Salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and Godly in this present world. So, yes, absolutely, that Grace from God. It’s not a ticket to sin or license to do whatever we feel like because God’s just going to forgive us, but rather it’s the power of God living in us to overcome sin in this present and wicked world, which is pretty amazing.
Speaker 1
What’s interesting there too is that it is by the Spirit living in us, dwelling in us, that we overcome these sins. It’s not by our own strength exactly. It’s us working with the Spirit that’s dwelling in us, inviting the Spirit to dwell in us and working with that spirit to overcome sin.
Speaker 3
You know what’s so interesting? Something just popped in my head when you said that when you think of God’s law, the Ten Commandments, it’s a bunch of thou shalt not in a sense, but in a way it’s like God just saying, just rest, just stop and let me have no other gods before me. So if we’re not worshiping with other gods by default, as we’re allowing God in our hearts, we’re just only going to worship God by not murdering, by not stealing. We’re going to allow God to do good things in us and through us by just reframing, just stopping, resting from the evil works of this world. We just don’t do things God by default as we just allow God to live in us, can’t help but allow those fruits of the Spirit to work in us because the sin isn’t separating us from God like it says in Isaiah.
Speaker 1
And it’s just kind of like surrendering those things.
Speaker 2
And I got a good version that ties us together, including with the lettering.
Speaker 1
Oh, go for it.
Speaker 2
So, Ezekiel 36. 25. And this is one of my favorite verses to me when people say, oh, the God of the old testament and new testament are two totally different gods. No, what we’re about to read, this is new testament theology, but it’s in the old testament. And so Zegal 36, verse 25. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you and you shall be clean from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Will I cleanse you? So, yeah. Water also cleansing SoCal. We definitely see how much just rank and clean things up. A new heart also will I give you? And a new spirit will I put within you? And I will take away your Stony heart? Out of your flesh? And I will give you a heart of flesh. How much in that whole sentence that we just read involves us doing something. This is God speaking, by the way. A new heart also will I give you and a new spirit will I put in you. And I will take away the Stony heart of flesh? And I will give you a heart of flesh and I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes.
Speaker 2
And you shall keep my judgments and do them. And you shall run the land that I give you to your fathers and you shall be my people and I will be your God. But it’s God is doing so much of the work to help make us keep his law, we can’t do it on our own. And the Israelites, why did they keep failing so much? Because they kept thinking they could do it themselves.
Speaker 3
Amen.
Speaker 1
That’s powerful. How much we’re taught to be good by our own control, to control our emotions, control our feelings, control everything. And God just says, just surrender it. You don’t need to control it. Just surrender it to me and let me come in. Let my spirit come in and take control of the situation.
Speaker 3
Amen. Just like Jesus says John 15. He says, abide in me and I in you. He’s like, because of your own self, you can do nothing.
Speaker 2
Exactly. That’s right. That way you can do nothing.
Speaker 3
That’s absolutely true. But then, of course, whenever I think of that verse, My mind always goes to Philippians 413. It says, but I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me so as much as my own self, I can do absolutely nothing. But anything is possible if Christ is working in you, which is such a beautiful message of hope. And I just think we don’t see that enough because we don’t believe it enough. But if we take it by faith and put it into practice, we can see amazing things in our lives.
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In His Service
BibleAsk Team
